<p>mini said: "But if you want to understand behavior, I think it is useful to look at the behavior of the largest group first? Or would you understand American culture by looking at Muslims?"</p>
<p>How would you understand how Muslims (blacks) behave/interact with American culture by examining the largest group first (whites)? I really have no idea what you meant by the above.</p>
<p>I certainly think that all kids feel a little lost when they go away to college, especially during freshman year. If a minority student is used to being a member of the majority in his/her neighborhood, it is certainly natural for him/her to feel especially alone once at college where whites and asians may be in the majority. Under those circumstances, I would expect anyone to seek out people who they interpret as being like themselves and feel more natural with. Are you saying that there is a form of racism involved in the fact that some blacks chose to have black friends more than white/asian friends? I am still confused by the comment about blacks sitting at their own cafeteria table since they were being left out. My S's high school was about 35% black, 35% hispanic, 15% white and 15% asian. From what I heard from my S (who was unbelivably informative for a high schooler), the blacks who chose to have white friends were somewhat ostracized by the other blacks.</p>
<p>In a lot of cases Dufus3709 Black kids do get ostracized with the usually "oreo" or "acting white" comment because their peers feel like they're being being overly assimilated into "White Culture", but not most of the time, even if theyre in the minority at a school. But this need to label people as being overly assimilated exists within other minorities also, e.g. I have heard some of my Asian friends refer to people they feel as overly assimilated as "Twinkies". </p>
<p>Well for me Blacks make up abut 10% of my school and make up and even smaller percentage amongst AP/IB classes, and Im in that percentage, but my Black friends have always supported me and never ridiculed me for being into taking honors/AP/IB courses, in fact the only time I've heard someone say I was acting "White" was out of one of White peers mouth. So in the end it really depends on the school environment and the person.</p>
<p>informative post. I hadn't considered the particular situation of an academically high-achieving black-student in a dominantly non-black context. It seems you found yourself in an interesting situation.</p>
<p>Do you think it will be similar in college?</p>
<p>How do you feel about "affinity-housing" and such?</p>
<p>
[quote]
People also don't notice the many tables and activities (such as Greek ones) that are all white. Somehow, that's considered the norm. For some reason, people don't ask, "What's wrong with the white students for all sitting together?"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I hate to be the math geek ... but ... if a school is 90% white and 10% african american and the students truly do not care with whom they sit then ... a table of ten kids would most likely have 9 whites and one african american. There is a 38% chance of having a table with 10 whites and no african americans ... and a vitually 0% chance of having a table of 10 african americans and no whites. In a population having a sub-group comprised solely of the higher proportion group is not all that unusual.</p>
<p>Math geek stuff aside ... I believe students do tend to self-segragate. In California where the 20+% of the population is white, hispanic, asian, and african american ... the same analysis would say we'd epect tables to be split pretty evenly among the races and any table of all one race would be highly unlikely (virtually 0%) and it happens a lot (at least it did in my California days many moons ago).</p>
<p>A couple comments in the Middlebury case that started this whole string. I'm with the crowd that believes this was a lousy reporting job and we may not know the true story. Lots of folks seemed to feel Middlebury wronged this student ... that may very well be true ... it may very well be true that they bent over backwards to give him a break ... to me, it is not clear at all ...</p>
<p>Middlebury is not publically responding ... as mentioned earlier they legally can not. In addition, if you were the victim, a witness, or otherwise involved in this case would you want Middlebury to come forward and go public with their case and bring you into the public eye ... I would guess not. The Walker team is playing a one-sided public relations ploy they know will be one-sided.</p>
<p>Mr. Walker can not have a lawyer - this story is about a discplinary proceeding at a private school and not a trial in a court of law. The school is responsible for the overall welfare of the community and to give Mr Walker a fair chance to state his case. We did not learn enough about the process to know if the process was fair or not ... not allowing lawyers in an internal school matter is not unreasonable (in my opinion) and far from unusual.</p>
<p>Going to a private school puts a student at the mercy of both that school's judicial and academic review processes ... and in this case Mr. Walker feels the process wronged him (and he may well be right but we can't tell from the limited one-sided info given)</p>
<p>Woodwork, that has been my experience my whole life, I have always lived in an area where African-Americans made up a small percentage and college I feel that college will not be different. I learned how to communite and be around people of different bbackgrounds my entire life so I dont see my college experience detering from this.</p>
<p>Affinity houses in have their cons, but the pros are overwhelming. I think that these dorms/houses do a lot of cultural programs that bring a lot minority issues to the college forefront, and help people to better learn about people of different backgrounds, and for minority students who come from backgrounds where they were the majority they provide a positive place where they find support and ease the college transition process. Although sometimes it leads to self-segregation I definitely dont have a problem with them b/c frankly they do a lot more good than bad. Plus if one wants to have a problem with affinity houses then they should have a problem with White-dominated greek houses that rule the greek/social life at many colleges and universities and the fact of the matter is that most people find nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Plus if one wants to have a problem with affinity houses then they should have a problem with White-dominated greek houses that rule the greek/social life at many colleges and universities and the fact of the matter is that most people find nothing wrong with that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have a problem with both and would be in favor of eliminating both.</p>
<p>Actually, if dorms are going to be racially segregated, I would just as soon do away with affirmative action altogether because I don't see where it would be accomplishing anything. "Separate but equal" was dismissed as an educational philosophy fifty years ago.</p>
<p>If Aina Hunter's story "Busted for Blackness at Middlebury" [June 1-7] were an accurate report of what actually transpired here, it would indeed be cause for concern. But it is not an accurate reflection of the conduct involved, the penalty imposed, or the nature of the process that resulted in the imposition of a penalty. </p>
<p>Middlebury College did not summarily expel a student on the basis of race: Two separate panels composed of college faculty and fellow students found the student in question responsible, after extended hearings, for an offense that they deemed serious enough to warrant a temporary suspension from the college. The student subsequently pursued legal action against the college in an effort to void that suspension and graduate this year, but the Addison, Vermont, Superior Court denied that request for immediate relief. The college's suspension is not permanent. Middlebury will welcome the student back if he completes the terms of the discipline imposed for the offense in question. </p>
<p>It is indeed unfortunate that Hunter failed to include comments from college officials that would have provided some balance to a very one-sided, distorted account of what happened. Instead, she chose to listen only to the suspended student's lawyer's claims of racial bias. The student in question was brought to Middlebury through the Posse Foundation, given a full scholarship by Middlebury, and offered special academic and social support as a student identified by Posse as an outstanding candidate for success. It is absurd to suggest that Middlebury College would expel such a student on the basis of nothing more than race. Unfortunately, it appears that Hunter did not want to hear or include in her story anything that would undermine the inflammatory theme she apparently had in mind for her article. </p>
<p>I have a problem with both, too, and in fact this issue was one of the deciding factors for me when I was making a final choice about where to attend.</p>
<p>but I'm more troubled by the racial composition of the frats/sorors than by affinity housing. </p>
<p>I understand the desire of black students, who may represent as little as 3% of the student body, to live together - - not what I'd want for D, but I understand why others would find it comforting. I do not, however, understand the desire of White students, who make up the majority of the student body, to join social clubs that are, even if not by design, racially exclusive. </p>
<p>I know that at D's boarding school incoming black students are assigned a black roommate. Also, on the roommate questionaire asks whether a student is willing to live w/ a foreign student. Do colleges match roommates w/o regard for race? (They certainly didn't in my day - - that's how I got a single while the other freshmen were assigned doubles). Do they ask if students are willing to room w/ someone of another race? Does one get sent to diversity training for giving the "wrong" answer?</p>
<p>I think it depends on the college. There are very wide differences among colleges in the degree of interaction (in housing, and otherwise) among various racial and ethnic groups. In fact, I would count that as a key component of evaluating a school's campus culture. I see little point in having statistical "diversity" on a campus if there is social apartheid in actual practice.</p>
<p>One thing I would recommend as part of the evaluation process is looking at the details of the housing system, especially the degree to which official (or ad hoc) theme housing occurs, be it white/black, athlete/non-athlete, frosh/upperclass, etc.</p>
<p>I love how black exclusivity is all fine and dandy but white exclusivity is an abominable act. Same with black (or any other minority) and white supremacism. </p>
<p>Political Correctness is infuriating. I want to start a scholarship for only whites, or whites and asians, because people would scream racist, and because it is much easier to get outside 'merit' scholarships if you are a URM.</p>
<p>I know for a fact that Bob Jones University just recently lifted their ban on interracial dating. Like in 2000 or something. So there are most probably still racist sentiments within the faculty and students</p>
<p>*but I'm more troubled by the racial composition of the frats/sorors than by affinity housing. *</p>
<p>Unless I'm missing something here, I've always throught frats are assembled for shared social experiences, while affinity housing (is that the politically correct term now?) are assembled for the purpose of keeping races homogenized. Are frats white because they ban minority students, or because minority students don't take the initiative to join them?</p>
<p>I think we are know why affirmative action is fair, as well as why affirmative action is unfair. I just wanted to mention that there are also black frats and sororities.</p>
<p>"Are frats white because they ban minority students, or because minority students don't take the initiative to join them?"</p>
<p>The original Greek organizations in this country were white and did not admit nonwhites as well as people of some religions (such as Jews). </p>
<p>The reasons that blacks started their own Greek societies was because the other Greek organizations in the US were closed to them. This is the same reason that there are things like black associations for medicine, dentistry, etc. in this country.</p>
<p>While college campuses now prohibit campus organizations from excluding potential members because of race, understandably, black people are not flocking to white Greek organizations nor are whites flocking to join black Greek organizations. </p>
<p>The fact that some of the white Greek organizations have been in the news even recently for doing things like having slave auctions and various events in which white people wear blackface has made it even less likely that black students would wish to join them.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The original Greek organizations in this country were white and did not admit nonwhites as well as people of some religions (such as Jews).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It is not necessary to go that far back, either. In fact, I suspect that it would be quite easy to find frats and sororities on many campuses today with no Jewish members (just by coincidence, of course!)</p>
<p>Sororities met their demise at my daughter's school back in the 1930s when the lack of Jewish members was noticed. The female students objected and rounded up the votes in a series of two student referendums to disband the sorority system. The frats all pulled out of their national organizations because of anti-Jewish provisions in the national charters.</p>
<p>Northstarmom said: "While college campuses now prohibit campus organizations from excluding potential members because of race, understandably, black people are not flocking to white Greek organizations nor are whites flocking to join black Greek organizations."</p>
<p>Why is this understandable? Why do a large number of black students prefer company with other black students? Is this a preference on their part or are whites refusing them friendship? Why are churches in the US so segregated by race? Is this because of the racial memory of slavery/discrimination, present day discrimination, personal preference, cultural differences, preceived or real inequity in the system, parental advice, bad feelings about affirmatitive action or economic status, or just human nature? Certainly other historically religious, national, or ethnic groups are not as pronounced in being outside the mainstream. I really am asking what this is about. </p>
<p>In the case of black and white Greek organizations, there is a fundamental difference between the two separate from race. White Greek organizations are oriented around traditional "Greek" parties, frat/sorority events, and dating. Black Greek organizations are oriented more towards public service, and the biggest event is "step" competitions which are dance contests conducted to music which most whites would not be happy with.</p>
<p>At any rate, I don't think that Greeks are a good example of present day organizations. You may as well ask why there aren't more Jews in the Hitler fan club.</p>
<p>Why do you pose the question soley w/ respect to black students' decision not to join white organizations? As N'starmom said, white students aren't flocking to black frats.</p>
<p>rc251,</p>
<p>I don't believe the purpose of affinity is to keep the races homogonized. Presumably, affinity housing functions similar to your description of the frat/sorority system - students w/ a similar interest assembling for a shared social/living experiece. That the shared interests correlates w/ race - - particularly for those who are reprsented on campus in such low numbers - -shouldn't be surprising. </p>
<p>What's your opinion on women's dorms at co-ed schools? Surely you don't believe such dorms were established to segregate . . . .</p>