<p>Here's another thing you can consider in your college search:</p>
<p>This thing is as old as sin; the “15 select grad programs” are arbitrarily chosen and institutions with larger total UG sizes are punished.</p>
<p>Better criteria may be:</p>
<p>T14 Law
T9 Business
T 11 Medicine</p>
<p>With more flexibility, perhaps, to the relatively third rate Business and Medical schools.</p>
<p>^ A correctly done list of top feeder schools would be useful, and I have no doubt HYP would be among the top. However, as kwu stated, that study has some pretty faulty metrics and is outdated.</p>
<p>… because they found it faulty, but they only researched and produced the survey once, and years ago, about seven or so?</p>
<p>Obviously, Harvard as a chief feeder school to its own law and med schools – by far, would be consistently at the top. This would never change. </p>
<p>But with the number being fed to the “prestigious” grads schools so small, even at the top (read: Harvard), in relation to the percentages of, say, of moderately large schools with > 5,000 undergrads, the rankings would be highly volatile below a certain group and there would be a lot of shifts upward and downward… </p>
<p>And we all knew that there’d be a lot of Ivy schools feeding Ivy professional schools already.</p>
<p>Can someone do this for CC’s to major U’s as well?</p>
<p>Jus a note that Stanford Med, Law and Business schools were not included in the survey. Had this been done, Stanford would probably have been in Yale/Princeton territory.</p>
<p>@kwu, I would say T10 Business and T20 Medicine would be more realistic for such a survey.</p>
<p>And yes, I would be interesed in this study.</p>
<p>First, this is ollllllllllllllld news as the survey was done in 2003 and many of the matriculating students graduated many years before that.</p>
<p>Second, this is highly regional in terms of the grad schools surveyed:</p>
<p>Law-U Chicago, Columbia, Harvard, U Michigan, Yale
Medicine-Columbia, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, UCSF, Yale
Business-U Chicago, Dartmouth, Harvard, MIT, U Penn</p>
<p>Notice the preoccupation with grad schools in the Northeast (11 out of 15). By contrast, only three in the Midwest, one in the West, and zero in the Southeast/Southwest. Is it any wonder that the Ivy schools would compare well on this list? </p>
<p>Third, while Adcomms at top business schools (and even some Law and Med schools) certainly want evidence that you can handle the academic workload, they are far, far, far more interested in your work experience. The importance of your college’s name decreases dramatically when you get a few years out of college. </p>
<p>Fourth, there are plenty more than 15 Law/Med/Business schools that can lay a claim to elite status. </p>
<p>My sense is that the value of this survey declines in fairly direct proportion to how far one is from NYC. Anybody want to venture a guess on how valuable such a list is in the Sunbelt?</p>
<p>Yes Hawkette but a great majority of the elite law/ med/ and business schools are in the northeast. For example lets look at business schools. You could say the truly elite are Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, MIT, Columbia, Northwestern, Chicago, Dartmouth, Berkeley. So that’s 5/9 in the Northeast, 2/10 in the midwest, and 2/10 on the west coast.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, I consulted the latest graduate rankings.
For Business:</p>
<p>Tier 1: Harvard, Stanford (1)
Tier 2: Sloan, Wharton, Booth, Kellogg (3-5)
Tier 3: Tuck, Haas, Columbia, Stern (7-9)
Tier 4: Yale, Ross, Darden, Fuqua, Anderson (11-15)</p>
<p>All of these schools’ Peer and Recruiter Assessment Scores are > 4.0.</p>
<p>I agree that there is room for flexibility for Medicine, and that the rankings are arbitrary. For Business, however, there appears to be an accepted grouping of top schools. One could make an argument for Michigan and Duke, though for Yale, UVA, and UCLA, not so much.</p>
<p>Admitone,
Sorry, but the Northeast does not have a lock on intelligence. There are plenty of talented folks and great colleges/grad schools elsewhere throughout the USA. A sample of five grad programs for each discipline is a complete joke and a very biased sample. </p>
<p>Just as people in Boston are rightfully proud of Harvard or people in Philly are proud of U Penn, so too are people in other major cities like St. Louis (Wash U), Raleigh-Durham (Duke, U North Carolina), any of the major Texas cities (U Texas, Baylor), Atlanta (Emory), Pittsburgh (U Pittsburgh, Carnegie Mellon), Washington DC (Georgetown), Nashville (Vanderbilt), Seattle (U Washington), etc, etc, etc. Yet none of these terrific places are included in any of the measurements. </p>
<p>Kwu,
I would respectfully disagree with your limitations. IMO, there are at least 15 (and maybe as many as 25) grad business schools that are very high quality, both in terms of students and faculty. Think about the enrollment size of these schools and then think about American business, both in terms of size and breadth. There are lots of good folks coming out of many more places than just the relative handful you cite. </p>
<p>Anyway, while we may disagree on how many and which graduate business schools belong on the “elite” list, I hope you will agree that their admissions process is heavily dominated by the applicant’s work history and not his/her undergraduate college. And that was really my more important point in # 8.</p>
<p>Hawkette, the average work experience of entering first years at Stanford and Harvard Business Schools is only about 4 years, so you still see the influence of the top 10-20 undergraduate schools (and frankly HYPSM) at these two top programs, for instance.</p>
<p>I completely agree with admitone here. Grad school selection isn’t like undergrad selection; unlike for undergrad where one can choose based on “fit” and attend a lower ranked school, students applying to biz/law schools would be foolish to not go to the most prestigious one they can admissions to.</p>
<p>hawkette, do you think a Berkeley grad would choose Berkeley Law over Yale Law? Would a Michigan grad ever choose Ross or Booth over HBS? You would be greatly harming your future earning potential if you went to the lower ranked institution in these cases.</p>
<p>Also, it’s interesting how UChicago (law and biz), Columbia (law and med), MIT (biz), Michigan (law), Dartmouth (biz), Hopkins (med) and Penn (biz) are represented in this survey, yet even with all this “home field advantage”. Duke and Williams outperform all of these universities and quite significantly in comparison to Hopkins and Michigan. LACs also do extremely well.</p>
<p>The high performance of Duke, Stanford and Pomona in this survey in particular disprove the idea that having more “geographic diversity” would change the results of this survey too much.</p>
<p>Hawkette, why do these 3 schools do so well in this survey when none of their professional schools are represented and none of them are located anywhere close to this survey’s law/biz/med programs of choice?</p>
<p>Oh look, HYP topped off</p>
<p>JA,
I’m not disputing the high quality of students entering HBS or SBS. My point is that there are also plenty of other smart kids going to very, very good grad b-schools. Also, IMO, work experience of 4 years is a heck of a lot better indicator of one’s potential than what one might have done as an undergraduate student sitting in a classroom. I don’t think it’s even close and when I’m interviewing b-school students, I’m much more focused on their work experiences and what they learned than I am on what their undergrad GPA might have been. </p>
<p>ldb,
I’m not arguing that Harvard or Yale don’t have enormously powerful brands. They do and this cuts across all grad programs (though presently less so for Yale’s b-school). My point is that once you get past the top 1-3 programs in each of these fields, it’s relatively easy to name another 10-15 that are very much peers of one another. Thus, I’d sample 10-15 programs for each discipline, hopefully spread across a broader cross section of excellent schools, and likely end up with a much better reflection of who’s going where. This is obviously easier said than done as doing such sampling is not a small task. </p>
<p>icalc,
A cynic might suspect that your revival of this very old study was solely to trumpet the results that reflect favorably on your school. :rolleyes:</p>