<p>Does anyone know what factors into the almighty rankings for undergraduate engineering programs? My S is deciding between ME at Berkeley (#2) and UCLA (#19). </p>
<p>Overall UCLA and Cal are ranked very closely, and UCLA would offer an enticing change of scenery (we're from NorCal). But the engineering school and ME program are ranked significantly higher at Cal.</p>
<p>What does the difference actually mean?? Thanks!</p>
<p>For engineering it's Berkeley all the way. I don't know anyone who thinks of the two schools as in the same league. Unless there is a real good reason to pick UCLA over Cal for non-academic reasons, I'd go with Cal.</p>
<p>Thanks, evoke. But why? What makes Cal so much better, specifically?</p>
<p>It's not really the school, but the people who go there. Berkeley is harder to get into for engineering (at least thats the stereotype) therefore when you graduate with a degree from Cal it looks better to employers and grad schools. In terms of course work it doesn't matter where you go for engineering, a mechE at Umich will learn the same theory of elasticity that they do at Cal and UCLA. Since Cal and UCLA are large research schools you'll get the same 300+ person lectures. If you went to harvey mudd you get smaller classes and there might be a difference in terms of the education.</p>
<p>Don't sweat the rankings. Anything in the top 30 is going to be a superb engineering school. Instead, have her focus on what makes each school unique: people, social life, curriculum (!!), location, cost, ect. The difference between the #2 and the #19 school is going to be minimal within engineering, but the differences in college life and her actual curriculum will be bigger.</p>
<p>Trust me, I'm at an engineering school based on its ranking and the fact it was IS for me (Virginia Tech, alllll the way over here on the east coast =P) without doing any research into the differences within the programs of schools (other than I knew it had big departments and superb rankings). Now, i'm stuck trying to transfer into a school that has a more liberal arts approach to engineering (UVa), that alhtough has a lower ranking, is better suited for me in every aspect (location, social life, campus life, curriculum, ect).</p>
<p>shoebox is absolutely correct, you cannot judge a school only on its rankings. Never accept a school's offer before visiting, it's worth the plane ticket. And talk to current students who are not part of the open house tour.</p>
<p>Shoebox10 ...... My son is trying to make his final decision on his Engineering school and has Virginia Tech as one of his top 3. Can you give us any insight to what the first year is like? We are going to go to the accepted students day April 15th. Is this going to give enough info? What is the world like for a freshman? </p>
<p>Any input would be great ..... as you indicated it is better to not have to transfer.</p>
<p>shoebox10 - UVA is no.37. maybe you should adjust your statement to top 40. in fact, let's say top 50 so my D's school (Pitt) is included.</p>
<p>what do you mean by a "liberal arts approach to engrg"? i have a friend whose son is thinking about going there. actually, he wants UVA, but his parents think he should go to either UIUC or Ga Tech (he got in both) 'cause they are in the top 5 or ten.</p>
<p>I was an RA in the male freshman engineering themed hall (Galileo) and I highly recommend it. All the students there take essentially the same classes and make friends with people they'll be having classes with the rest of their college career. It's a good atmosphere too and the residents are a lot of fun. </p>
<p>The classes can be rough the first year, but if you buckle down and study you will be fine. A lot of engineering students don't like studying in groups when they come into college but they really are helpful. VT has excellent corporate connections and job placement. You can get a co-op/internship pretty much anywhere in the country and with the top engineering companies.</p>
<p>Feel free to ask more questions.</p>
<p>
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shoebox10 - UVA is no.37. maybe you should adjust your statement to top 40. in fact, let's say top 50 so my D's school (Pitt) is included.
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</p>
<p>LOL... :) how about top 100? top 200? and finally ranking is irrelevant at all</p>
<p>pearlygate, imo, to a large extent ranking is irrelevant, esplly USNW, even tho everyone uses it or factors it in to their decision making. if you analyze what goes into the ranks, a lot of it is $$, the size of the endowment, and a lot of it is opinion (the deans of the other schools and the corporate recruiters fill out a survey). then look at the % of people who were sent the survey and actually responded to it. a lot of times all a school needs to jump in the rankings is a really good fund raising year (or two). they can raise their opinion index by getting a bunch of visiting professors in to see what they are (ahem) already doing. when the rank goes up after those things has anything changed? they "seem" better but are exactly the same as they were before the bump.</p>
<p>plus rankings don't tell you things like ga tech's notorious rep for how brutally they treat their ug's. their rank is high, but the quality of life is low.</p>
<p>So evoke, are you saying the rankings only reflect the caliber of student, that Cal is harder to get into so the students are smarter? But not much difference between #2 and #19 in caliber of prof or money for research or quality of lab equipment (or whatever else goes into the ranking)?</p>
<p>And mercy, sounds like you think the differences in $$, endowment and peer opinions are slight between ranks and not meaningful?</p>
<p>So how do people pick a program? Quality of life, location etc will be important "happiness factors," we just want to understand what someone gives up academically by walking away from #2.</p>
<p>hiker -</p>
<p>you have two excellent choices and imo the difference between #2 and #19 probably is negligible. i personally am not familiar at all with these two schools. and i am only just now getting more familiar with engrg issues, belatedly as my engrg D is finishing her freshman year!</p>
<p>what i have learned so far is that to a certain extent the field is regional. reps vary close to home from the natl ranks. find out if you can what the locals think about these two. talk to people working in the field and see who they'd rather hire; see what they know about the inner workings details. i live near houston and let me tell you at that NASA facility, which is HUGE, pretty much all the cars in all the lots have Texas A & M stuff on them. how many people on CC are agonizing about going to Texas A&M? (and it ranks surprisingly high, much higher than Rice, which is quite popular on CC). so see what the locals say.</p>
<p>then definitely visit both schools if you can, in depth if possible. engrg is the hardest major at any school it is available at. your kid is going to have to WORK to stay afloat. that is soooo much easier if they're happy. plus an in depth visit will go a long way to telling you what you'd give up if you say no to Berkeley.</p>
<p>i completely agree with evoke about the imptance of the visit.</p>
<p>there is something to the business of a school ranking higher if their students are smarter (determined by the average test scores/gpa of the entering class), but i think there are clusters within the rankings where the difference doesn't matter so much 'cause the weaker students entering tend not to finish. some, if not a lot of them, drop out as early as the first semester. once they see how hard engrg really is they decide it's not for them. so the strongest students are who goes on to the advanced course work and that's where there may be no difference at all between schools in a ranking group.</p>
<p>hiker - </p>
<p>I haven't looked at the undergrad rankings in 5 years but a large part of USNWR ranking is a subjective factor. This is really the only part that matters in terms of academics (yes, quality of life and other non-academic factors play a big role but those are completely personal. What one person finds to be a good study environment can be hell to another). </p>
<p>In terms of profs, grants, and lab equipment, you'll find the same stuff anywhere you go. There are slight differences between schools in terms of focus but these are again PERSONAL and are not part of the rankings. For example if you were really interested in autonomous helicopters Georgia Tech is the place to be. But all schools will have something that is top of the pack. For most undergrad lab classes you'll use the same machinery anywhere you go. The really specialized equipment that only a few schools own you probably won't have access to as an undergrad.</p>
<p>mercy: The difference between the top 30 and top 40 is miniscule, since so many schools tie. But, beyond 40, schools start to really look the same in engineering strength terms. Also, UVA is ranked #21 in EE, and VT is #20, so if we're still going by rankings, UVA is in the top 30 still.
As for the liberal arts approach I want, it comes from my background. I've always loved liberal arts type classes, and have always done very well in them. However, I prefer engineering for my major. So, I want a university that I can graduate with a great engineering degree, but still have room in my curriculum to take other classes i'm passionate about. Furthermore, I hope to go to grad school for an MBA upon graduation, and a broader UG curriculum would better prepare me. </p>
<p>Bet77- As for VT, freshman year is rough on engineering students. 1/3 of all entering freshman drop out before the end of the year and either transfer colleges within VT or transfer out. However, it's not like engineers have no social life, and there is room to take other classes outside of engineering if you come in with English credits. However, the math classes are rough, and chem/physics are "weeder" courses. The engineering classes arn't a ton of trouble, just a lot of work. So, VT overall is tough engineering school when it comes to academics. But, its very rewarding, and will turn anyone into a very proficient, intelligent engineer with a strong math/science background. Plus, job recruitment here is amazing.<br>
As for Gailio program, I wouldn't suggest it. Your son will be overwhlemed with engineering as it is, and its not hard to find others to study with. Allowing him to have friends outside of engineering will be crucial to keeping his mind sane =P However, it does provide a ton of support and his hallmates will never be going out on a Wednesday night while he's stuck inside studying.</p>
<p>hiker - </p>
<p>i was looking at some other engrg thread and one of the posters seemed to think that gpa meant more than rank or name of school for getting a job. like this guy's brother had stinky grades from Cornell and the poster had great grades from a far "lesser" place. the one with good grades had a much easier time getting a job. maybe some of these guys here could opine on that.</p>
<p>so if the happiness issue could affect gpa, then that might be more significant factor than it appears on the surface. or just if the kid thinks he'll do better at one place or the other.</p>
<p>it also appears Berkeley is the bomb for engrg, so maybe he needs to look at it closely. my relatives tell me a guy from Berkeley, Robert Bea, is the head of the independent team assessing the collapse of the levees in New Orleans. that's kind of cool.</p>
<p>Hi, our son's top choices for Electrical or Computer engineering are Rose Hulman, Virginia Tech, and Clemson. He has seen and liked all three for different reasons. He prefers a smaller school but felt that within his major at Clemson or VT he will feel at home with both even though they are much larger. This is a very tough choice. We can make any of the three work. We have considered, location, Coop, internship, job placement. Are there variables that don't stick out or strong reasons to pick one over the others.</p>
<p>Hello:</p>
<p>I want to study chemical engineering and have been accepted by North Carolina State University and Virginia Tech. I am also in the waiting list of Lehigh University, and Lafayette College. Do you know which is the best college for chemical engineering?</p>
<p>I was thinking to accept NCSU offer, and then if I am called from Lafayette College (since I am on the waiting list) take their offer. What do you say? Which is the best option? What should I do? I do not have many time since the deadline is approaching.</p>
<p>Thanks for your help</p>
<p>I think it is important to consider regionally where you might like to eventually work. Often times the job opportunities will be near where you go to school.</p>