<p>"But one thing that has remained constant over the years is the academic reputation rank/peer assessment score. That has almost not changed since 1988 and is a far more telling and accurate indicator of academic excellence."</p>
<p>Alexandre, I could not disagree more with that statement. The Peer Assessment is the WORST part of the USNews Report. The Peer Assessment is an exercise in futility and abject cronyism. It is nothing but an absolute fraud that is perpetrated on an annual basis onto hordes of unsuspecting buyers of the magazine. </p>
<p>Before assigning any value to the PA, have you asked yourself HOW the surveys are completed and by WHOM. The USNews would like us to believe that it is a very scientific poll and that we are benefitting from "intelligent" answers. The reality is that the surveys that are returned are probably filled by a young secretary who assigns 3, 4 and 5 between sips of Diet Coke and bases herself on ... last years' numbers, or some whimsical notion of what other schools are. Do YOU really believe that the Provost of Oral Roberts University -if he ever saw the survey- has ANY idea how Harvard stacks up against Arizona State? Don't you think that any members of the famous Seven Sisters are not making sure to assign perfect scores to their "buddies"? How else could explain the amazingly high scores that have no correlation WHATSOEVER with their selectivity numbers? </p>
<p>As far as I am concerned, it is a perfect indicator of intellectual dishonesty and organized fraud. USNews could use the date of founding of the schools and obtain MUCH better results. </p>
<p>The ONLY value of the USNews Reports resides in the underlying data that is numerical and can be traced to the CDS reports. All the rest is cynical manipulation.</p>
<p>I also noticed the discussion/diagreement about MIT 4.9 versus Caltech 4.7. If you want further proof that the peer assessment is asinine, check the PA of Harvey Mudd. Remember that they ARE SUPPOSED to measure UNDERGRADUATE EDUCATION.</p>
<p>Actually I would bet the Provost of ORU has a pretty good idea how they stack up. To assume there is much cronyism or logrolling behavior in college politics is to overestimate the ability or inclinations of academics to cooperate on much of anything. With greater attention paid to the rankings, it would seem likely that those completing the forms would take them more seriously rather than less.
I never heard of Franklin Pierce Law.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Where would the Provost of ORU find information that is dependable? Last year's USNews, The Catholic Chronicle, or ... a crystal ball? </p></li>
<li><p>The fact that greater attention is given to the RESULTS does not mean that the survey have more validity. Have you checked the trends in survey completions? </p></li>
<li><p>Why would it matter that YOU never heard about Pierce Law. If it was an unknown entity, you should wonder WHY they receive the survey. If it was a prestigious school, you should wonder WHY they wrote the article I quoted.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>If the Pierce Law was not sufficient, you may prefer to read one of the articles of Amy Graham. She may be harder to dismiss, as she was the former director of data research for US News & World Report.</p>
<p>Works for me. At least for comparing the research schools. The LAC's can have their own stats. How about number of lattes shared with my profs and which profs have the best home cooked meals for students.</p>
<p>You know Barrons, I don't say it enough but Wisconsin is one of the schools I respect the most. Among state schools, it is third or fourth and overall, among the top 20 or top 25 universities in nation. </p>
<p>My favorite Badger is one you never mention...much to my chagrin. His name is Charlie Trotter. He is one of the top 3 chefs in America and one of the top 25 chefs in the World! He is AMAZING!!! He studied Political Science in Madison...I think.</p>
<p>Barrons, do I sense a little scorn towards LAC? </p>
<p>First, let me assure you that I do not view this issue as research univeristy versus LAC, or even private schools against state schools. I do not expect to be familiar with my posting history, but you could find hundreds of my posts extolling the values of large state schools and questioning the education value of private schools or LAC. For instance, when it comes to accounting, The University of Texas stands head and shoulder above all others, and this in undergraduate, graduate, and doctoral levels. There are countless similar examples for other disciplines. </p>
<p>The reality is that there are GREAT schools and POOR schools in all the different groups. The key is to identify the real great schools and expose the schools that are benefitting from preferential treatments in the so-called objective rankings. For instance, being a super-power at the graduate level does not ALWAYS equate with the same quality at the undergraduate level. In this regard, allow me to remind you that THIS board is about undergraduate -with a VERY small section for graduate schools. </p>
<p>Further, the exercise of finding great values and the "best" education requires a lot more than a combination of gross generalizations and biased information composed from selected data. Anyone who wants to compare undergraduate schools should do it with a level playing field. Leveling the playing field includes discarding most of the graduate school's impact. </p>
<p>Obviously, that might change the picture a bit too much for the ones who prefer a distorted view of our education world and cling to self-serving notions of grandeur.</p>
<p>The faculty is the key element in all education. Facilities and other resources are nice too but the faculty is the key. The only rankings of faculty are generally those for the grad depts. Therefore it is much easier to compare depts with graduate rankings and it is very important for undergrads to the extent that at most schools the same faculty teach both levels. Harvard might be able to afford to hire stars that only teach a grad seminar a semester but state schools cannot afford this luxury so pretty much all profs at state research schools teach both levels. Therefore the quality of that faculty group as judged by their peers is a pretty good indicator of quality. Does that make them great teachers--no--but most people bright and creative enough to be top researchers are also at least decent teachers and their connections to other top people for grad school apps is invaluable.</p>
<p>I was just kidding the LAC crowd--let's keep a sense of humor about all this.</p>
<p>To Alex--well it's a little hard to work great alumni chefs into the mix here but I certainly am very familiar with Mr. Trotter by reputation. They had him speak at one of the commencements in the last couple of years so the UW is proud of him too.
As to favorite Chicago chefs--I am a huge fan of Rick Bayless and his style of Mexican food. When I lived there in the 80's we went to his place at least twice a month. Never made it to Trotter's but that is not my favorite type of cuisine either.</p>
<p>If you guys are good cooks, I'd recommend Rick Bayless' large cookbook on Mexican cuisine. It's a fairly dense volume, not really suited for beginners, but a fabulous, definitive work on Mexican cooking. One of my favorite recipes comes from this book: Yucatan Grilled Sea Bass tacos -- large pieces of Chilean Sea Bass, marinated in a homemade Achiote Paste, wrapped in bananna leaves and grilled over charcoal fire. Served with freshly made Habeneros salsa and Mexican red rice. Wow. I also do a New England variant with fresh North Atlantic Haddock. This book covers all the essentials, much like Julia Child for Mexican cuisine.</p>
<p>Bayless has a couple of simpler introductory books as well.</p>
<p>Xiggi 1) I totally agree with what you have been saying and 2) you are 18...WOW, future supreme court justice here!</p>
<p>Unfortunately people who go to the big state schools will never experience what people who went to places like Dartmouth, Brown, and Princeton have. Literally in any city I go to, I can look up the Dartmouth alums since we have our own friendster-type database. In Atlanta I literally hung out with every Dartmouth alum within a few years, on consulting gigs I did the same. In my job hunting process in business school I didn't find my job through my business school, I found it through a Dartmouth contact. The smaller schools are endearing institutions, and personally I would trade a couple notches on "peer assessment", - a graduate research oriented number, for the intimacy of the smaller schools any day.</p>
<p>Gee, I guess the weekly football watching parties we have in Seattle, the summer cookout, the annual foodbank workday, and other events are just figments of my UW-Seattle area alumni club's imagination.</p>