No, most kids in inferior schools are there because we allegedly believe that education should be a local responsibility not a national one, and so ed reforms like the Finland system/French system can’t work here. Voters in some school districts reserve the right to purchase textbooks which have pictures of dinosaurs roaming the earth with Adam and Eve and which describe phenomena accepted by virtually every scientist in the world as “alternative theories to Creationism”.
“On the other hand, some people think the increase in tuition is driven, at least in part, by the need for schools to offer posh dorms and gourmet food and amusement park accouterments to attract 18 year olds used to luxury. That doesn’t describe most of the students on financial aid.”
I gotta say, having toured at least a dozen college campuses in the last few years, there was nothing that I found “posh” or “gourmet” or “amusement park” in any of them. Pleasant facilities. But nothing that made me think luxurious.
One we went to was starting on a “lazy river”…
I don’t have kids, yet I happily pay taxes so that other people’s kids can go to K-12 schools for free.
Why? Because I have this weird idea that it’s better to give children a chance at getting an education than not.
Many kids are dealt a crap hand in life. I was middle class until a drunk driver ended my father’s ability to work in his early 40s. My mom had always worked full time but with her own debilitating illness and taking care of my father, she eventually lost the ability to work herself. That left me with a 0 EFC, working multiple jobs, and going to school on a near-full ride because hey, the school has decided that it’s a good idea to give kids in poverty the chance to get out.
And now, I’m in a PhD program and making enough that I can own a house and pay taxes. Why? Because I had the ability to go to school because of, yes, other people’s money. I am not ashamed of that.
So wah. Your kids have probably never gone without food, not known whether or not they’ll be able to stay in their house, never gone without medical care, etc. So you’re right, life’s not fair… but not because one can’t get the 60k+ education that they dream about.
Indeed, the “fabulous financial aid” is available to anyone who wants to do this. What a nice option to have.
And your expected economic contribution to the economy and government tax revenues over the rest of your life should easily outweigh the government subsidies spent on your education at state universities. But those who want to reserve college only for the scions of wealth may not realize that. Of course, you will also make many non-economic contributions that you otherwise may not be able to make had you been shut out of post-secondary education.
My son is starting his new job tomorrow and I am helping him with benefits forms right now. HIs company has 4 different tiers of Medical Insurance pricing with salary ranges at <75K/y,75K-150K/y,150-225K/y and over 225K/y, plus deductibles and out of pocket maximums increase 150% when you make over 75K/y.
This looks very similar to elite college pricing (good thing that all elite colleges he applied to rejected or waitlisted him)
Another area of randomness in financing - 2 families both with 2 kids both making $150,000 both with assets. First family kids are 4 years apart - full freight for 8 years. Second family kids are 1 year apart - probably a $25,000 to $30,000 discount on EFC for 3 years. Both families make same amount over 10 years, but one gets a large discount because of timing. I guess they really do think that college is paid out of current earnings.
Just because the EFC is lower does not mean need based aid will be higher.
The VAST VAST majority of colleges do not meet full need for all students.
But you definitely would get something versus nothing.
500K of non-retirement saved up = 500K going to colleges if you have enough kids.
We are in a similar situation, all our home equity will go to our kids’ college plus they will all need to take out about 40K of loans each too.
Or they go to a community college. Or a trade school.
The only question I have is, do you save up the 160K for the ones that don’t blow it all on college?
Sure. If you’re dirt poor you get around 5k in pell.
I don’t think too many people want to give up their nice salaries to become pell eligible.
In my state, there is ZERO in the way of state need-based aid. So you get nothing unless you qualify for federal aid at many schools without nice endowments.
GRAustin, not necessarily. At $150k income, neither student in school at the same time will get federal grants. Many public schools will not give anything for need based aid except the federal amounts. If both students get into a provides full need schools, maybe.
When my kids were applying, I made quite a bit more. Two kids in school, one applying to an OOS public, one to privates, and they received nothing in need based aid. The EFC was cut from $40k to $20k each, but with an EFC of $20k you don’t get need based aid at most schools. You might get a subsidized Stafford loan rather than an unsubsidized one (maybe, depends on the COA), but that is not a lot in savings.
There is a point where reducing the EFC doesn’t help. If your EFC is $60k and you get it down to $35k, will it matter that much for need based aid? Only at the really generous schools.
Actually, we are dangling it in front of D2. She has choice of full ride or full pay or places in the middle. Depending on her choice, she can graduate with a degree or a degree and a down payment on a house or something comparable. It will be interesting to see what she picks.
@twoinanddone - I’m actually glad to hear that. Of course my kids are 4 years apart and we did not apply for FA with first child. So, I am not familiar with what the actual packages are but I always thought they would be close to your EFC. I’m finding out that is not the truth.
So, next question, does the NPC for these schools include this gap or are they giving out false hope?
Both the NPCs for my kids were exactly correct - with no need based aid shown!
I think it is a lot easier for the NPC to be correct when there is no need based aid involved. No guessing or estimating, just no aid. One was a public OOS and there was a merit award shown on the NPC. That school is in a farming/ranching state, and the NPC did ask a lot of questions about farm income, so I think it is trying to be as accurate as possible. The private school DD’s NPC had her academic merit aid, but also showed the state grant and a lot of little awards the school gives, like $1000 for visiting the school or ‘knowing’ an alum, $2500 for being a legacy or having sibling at the school. They were all pretty accurate
One thing I didn’t like about the NPC for that private school was that the amount that was left over was put in a Parent Plus loan, so the bottom line, the OOP was in bold - $0! Right. Not quite. The NPC also didn’t show, of course, any outside scholarships or her athletic award.
The public school showed the gap and then gave suggestions of how to pay - borrow, savings, work. It was nice, there was a worksheet for the student to figure it out.
Again, I’m glad to hear that they have that gap but you are right that they are not indicating loans vs grants more succinctly. You see over and over again kids thinking they are completely covered and not understanding that a good portion is loans and expected to be repaid.
“$1000 for visiting the school or ‘knowing’ an alum, $2500 for being a legacy or having sibling at the school”
As if those perks don’t slant to the well-off!
This article gives a comprehensive look at the effects of merit aid on the college admission process, as well as trends in college affordability for lower income families.
Some of the figures may be outdated. For instance, Denison is noted as having a net cost “of nearly $19,000” for the lowest income tier, but that figure is currently just under $10,000, which is actually pretty good when compared to similar schools.
Some readers will enjoy the auto-themed cartoon!
Another interesting article on the topic:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/colleges-often-give-discounts-to-the-rich-but-heres-one-that-gave-up-on-merit-aid/2014/12/29/a15a0f22-6f3c-11e4-893f-86bd390a3340_story.html
And here’s a detailed list of schools which DO provide merit aid without financial need, including the percentage of students and average award:
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/local/college-grants-for-the-affluent/1526/
I couldn’t find a list of which schools do NOT offer any merit aid. From the online references I found, it appears it’s only the Ivies and little Ivies, maybe 20 in all. So the issue only applies to what are considered the most elite schools in the nation.
There are MANY really good schools not quite in that stratosphere, with good stats, small classes, name recognition, what-have-you, so OP’s rant seems to be directed at a tiny minority of the American higher education system. More the Rolls Royces than Mercedes. So I agree with other posters: if you want that Harvard diploma, you pay the price. Otherwise you’ve got plenty of good choices: Duke, Wash U., Bowdoin, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, Grinnell…
My daughter would probably qualify for need-based full ride at an Ivy League school. But looking at the infinitesimal admit rate as well as other aspects, she came up with a fantastic list of so-called “lower tier” LAC that will suit her better. The FA awards from these schools are more of a crap shoot and we have yet to see the results, but she has a flagship as her safety.
She actually could go to our local community college totally free for two years, based on her academic record, as could a wealthy student with the same stats. I am willing to make sacrifices for her to go away to college because I believe that has its own benefits.
Bowdoin gives relatively small merit awards only to National Merit Scholars ($2,000 if eligible for Bowdoin need-based aid, $1,000 otherwise), and Bowdoin must be named as the first choice school.