I worry that counselors will be offended by this. As in, “Who is this outside person, with no education experience, telling us how to do our jobs?”
Agreed. Generally, HS counselors are not open to working with independent counselors, even those volunteering with college access orgs.
I expect some counselors will be using chatgpt and the like to do/or provide structure for LORs. Much talk about this in counselor listservs/FB pages.
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Our kids school counselors asked for a sheet detailing what the kids actually did. We didn’t work with an outside counselor, but this was still a request made to all students.
Because our kids did so much outside of school, they did this.
No need to tell a school counselor that you are working with someone else…but you can still provide an info sheet they can use.
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I think it depends entirely on your approach. I think you’d get a pretty good result if you say, “Hi, I’m working with Student X as a volunteer college counselor. I know that you have so much on your plate with your work at the school. Would you like me to provide some sample student-specific language for a letter of recommendation for this Student X? You could use as much or as little of it as you would like in your own recommendation.” On the other hand, if you say, “Hey, I’m working with Student X. I wrote a recommendation that you can use. Here you go!” your results might not be as positive.
As others have indicated, people who work in public high schools aren’t doing it for the money. If the counselor sees that you (and your rec letter) are in the best interests of the student, and it reduces their workload, I think you’ll get a favorable response if you use sufficient EQ.
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Ironically schools are measured in how many students they send to colllege, how many are in AP classes and the students tests scores comparatively year to year. They do mention graduation rate, but it is after these highlights.
I think there is a huge disconnect between what the schools advertise to parents and the stake holders vs what is really happening behind closed doors. I think this is where the confusion and frustration comes from.
I have sat in our high schools ‘state of the district address’, attended back to school nights and orientations, and 90% of the focus is on college prep. It is a huge let down for parents to have no support from the high school (counselors) after the student is ‘prepped’. There is just crickets chirping.
The high school districts, who very much are aware of this, need to update their business model (schools are very much a business) and add college counselors. After all, people don’t move to school districts because of their graduation rate, they move because of the college opportunities the schools can create for their kids.
*Just as an FYI…the counselors at our high schools make $100,000 for 9 months of work/ 6.5 hour days.
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Your reply would be: “Your Wordle of the day is QuestBridge!”
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The BS that my kid attended asked that you let them know if you were working with an independent CC. It was, imho, completely unnecessary given that the school’s CCs were doing nothing but CC and were very qualified and had about 25 students each. But I suspect that being able to collaborate and coordinate and to know where ideas were coming from made ir much less frustrating for everyone.
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GCs even in fairly well resourced school districts are off the mark but one has to remember that their advise is geared to the average student. Some random examples that come to mind from our GCs:
- No need to take the PSAT or just take it cold to see where you are.
- ED is a terrible idea.
- Fill out a form and tell me 5 things about you…I will write you the LOR in a few hours.
- You have a good shot at schools as long as you are in the middle 50.
Most parents have no idea on how to navigate the admission process and to be fair, most kids are happy to go a school that they can get into and offers their major at a cost they can afford. So, might well be great advise for >75% of the applicants.
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I don’t think that’s a lot, I just checked ours, my kids old guidance counselor is at $108,000, I think she’s moved up to more of a district wide position, MA +30, started 13 years ago. I think they’re off 2 months. My kids who’ve been in the work force for 5 years will pass that in a couple of years. Most are in the $75,000 - $85,000 range.
Please move on from discussing salaries please, or take it to PM.
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“The high school districts, who very much are aware of this, need to update their business model (schools are very much a business) and add college counselors.”
A different perspective is that public schools aren’t a business at all. Rather they are a public service like police and fire (in many communities) in place to serve the whole community and with no control over who their “customers” are. The concept of moving to a district for the college opportunities is a function of privilege and not applicable to many (most?). According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, ~62% of recent high school grads (years 2020 to 2022) are college students. Of those 70% are attending 4 year colleges. So 43% nationwide? In some schools, sure, that number is closer to 100 but that means in many others, it’s closer to 20. So YMMV–wildly.
I totally agree that there is often a big difference between what school’s “advertise” and what’s happening behind closed doors. The difference is often found in what many on this thread have mentioned: risky behaviors, challenging family situations, violence, the public school responsibility to deliver an education to every child in the district including those with learning differences, behavioral challenges or significant physical disabilities. Each of those often lands with Guidance Counselors as a key member of the response team. That’s not what’s highlighted on the school website. But it is core to the job of the school system.
While I would have loved for my kids to receive more support from GC’s in the college search process, I also knew that to be on a first name basis with the GC often wasn’t reflective of a great situation and so I was glad when they weren’t. And for many school districts (including my suburban/rural one), adding to the budget for a college counselor is simply out of the question when compared to other needs in the district.
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Meanwhile, in our large (~3,500) public school, my D24 just got a new GC to start her Senior year. Likely not going to get a lot of help.
Speaking only for our school, and of course everywhere is different. Our counselor is strictly college advising, for about 50-60 students each year. I can attest that he works 12 months, and often longer than 8 hours. He travels to many college campuses and other events to stay current. His work with our students is top notch. So, they’re not all bad.
I think school counselors run the gamut. It’s unfortunate when they aren’t great, but there are a lot of factors feeding that.
Thank you OP for helping the students!
I teach in a Title 1 high school. The counselors definitely can’t afford to prioritize college application. The highest priority of the school is always attendance, which is the source of funding. There is a magnet program on our campus. About 70% of their graduates attend college. I don’t have the numbers handy but the impression is about half of those going to college are going to community colleges, 30% are going to local public state universities, and the rest go out of town. Their 120 or so seniors share one college/careers prep counselor. Our main campus students don’t have a college prep counselor. The two AVID teachers take the responsibilities instead. The teachers and coaches who have students with potential for college identify them and provide voluntary additional help. ALL outside helping hands are not only welcome but highly desired. Please continue your work with more students.
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Hah. My local public school district has a job opening for what is the closest thing the school has to a college counselor - it’s called College & Career Technician:
“ Career Development Facilitator Training - Preferred • Experience working with Educational Development Plans and implementation of Career Focused Education activities, including essay writing for applications • Ability to develop collaborative partnerships with skilled trades and professional organizations. • Experience with Xello or Career Cruising preferred • Ability to build and maintain relationships with military, college, and career representatives including scheduling of visitations • Computer, communication, event planning, and organizational skills • Experience with assessment websites and Khan Academy • Experience with FAFSA and financial aid forms and applications • An enthusiasm for helping students seek scholarship and grant opportunities • Ability to coordinate classroom activities with teachers and counselors.”
I’ll edit (I actually posted before reading everything below the post to which I responded, so I apologize): This is a position that does not require experience with the college admissions process. I suppose it’s better than nothing, but it doesn’t really help the students in the way that the OP and others would like students to be helped. The counselors are burdened with other aspects of their jobs, so the position takes a bit of the college planning stuff off their plate. Unfortunately, the way the job is set up, it’s more coordination than what many of us on CC would like to see. But when decisions have to be made regarding where resources go, some areas don’t get as fleshed out as we’d like.
Again, move away from salary discussions and back to the OP. Posts will be deleted
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To OP. My graditude.
Our kids schools one private and one public were extremely organized and helpful looking back on it. I won’t go into it but it’s sad so many schools aren’t this way. Really a huge disadvantage for these kids. They knew basically month by month what they needed to do. Meets with counselors and parents in Junior and Senior year. Major universities in our area did the college talks and financial aid seminar. I really didn’t know how good we had it. Bragg sheet to counseler in Junior for recommendations etc etc.
Too bad this can’t be somewhat standardized.
We also had it really good with our local public school counselors. The counselor for one child was competent, and the other one was excellent, to the point that she does private counseling on the side.
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Thank you for the work you’re doing. Bear in mind that even wonderful, bright, and dedicated kids may not be accurately repeating what another adult told them. It’s entirely possible that the school counselor gave her terrible advice. It’s also possible that the part you heard was only part of what the counselor said.
Likewise, it’s possible the counselor knew nothing about Questbridge and never mentioned it to the kids. But the fact that the kid doesn’t remember hearing about it does NOT mean no one ever told her. What kid (or parent!) remembers every piece of good advice they got? There’s a reason parents invented the phrase “in one ear and out the other.”
You are right to be extremely cautious about offending a school counselor. If a case comes up where you really need to reach out to one, seek guidance from experienced counselors in your volunteer program.
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I hope the student you’re helping is applying to Questbridge and perhaps mentioning it to others (not the GC).
That being said, the US HS is no longer what is was for most students 40 or 50 years ago, a terminal education. A large number of students now go to college, often a majority of them, so each high school should have a minimum of one college counselor, ie., a person whose job is to work with juniors and seniors applying to college. Of course there should be an Education degree that goes with that role.