rd chances for athlete/debater

<p>Interesteddad, my son, a Swat junior spent this summer discussing religion and morality with a friend of his who goes to WUSTL. This guy is a classics major but apparently never questioned his positions before. My son got him to read 'The metaphysics of morals' by Kant in order to convince him that morality is outside of religion and that you can be moral but need not be religious. He went blue in the face (or red?) arguing with this guy, it was kinda funny ! :) But from my interactions with his Swat friends, I thought, these people do these things all the time while at Swat.</p>

<p>Hmm. Maybe there's more sarcasm in this thread than I originally detected- always a risk on the internet. I could be taking lots of posts out of context. If that's the case, I apologize. However, while I haven't read through the whole thread, I waited a while for Duhvinci to say something clearly friendly or good-natured to the OP, or to anyone who criticized him, and I haven't seen it yet. There have been some jokes, sure. I don't doubt that Duhvinci is a very clever guy. It just seems like ever joke is dripping with spite.</p>

<p>I'm not favoring blind political correctness, but there's a level of arrogance here that goes well beyond what I consider common decency. Swarthmore's a great school with some great kids, but there's no need to constantly try to attack all the other perfectly good schools or students brought up in the thread. I guess I'm just hoping that Swarthmore is more like how Duhvinci describes it than how he himself makes it look.</p>

<p>thank you achat for bringing this thread to a crashing halt. interesteddad was talking about the intellectual electricity INSIDE a swat classroom and you take this opportunity to brag about how your kid went blue in the face not being able to convince a wash u student of his point while OUTSIDE of class and OUTSIDE of swarthmore altogether. are you insinuating that swat students don't know how to convey their thoughts and persuade others of their positions or are you saying that only your kid doesn't know how to effectively convey a viewpoint? what is the relevance of your posting? besides, didn't i also tell you to fetch me a haverford shirt in another thread? weren't you supposed to...uhh...try getting it at haverford? if anyone needs me, i'm spending the next two hours chillin at sharples.</p>

<p>the thing, as far as I'm concerned, is that no matter how good-natured of a person Duh might actually be, no form of communication including internet posting should be taken as a total joke -I think it gives more insight into some elements in a person, if anything. In fact, some colleges would discipline students for posting rude things online. In fact, I wonder how the Swat admin would like how their school is being portrayed on this forum? Nevertheless, I'm tired of all the PC-bashing around here. You know where the term PC came from? It came from a conservative politician trying to make liberals look bad. You know what PC is? It's not ignoring issues -it's an effort to be polite, in addition to dealing with issues. A lot of people take for granted that they will always be spoken to politely -guess which people those tend to be?</p>

<p>And not only "PC", but "PC know-nothing"? I'll bet all my savings that I have a helluva lot more varied life experience than you, and that I know more people from varying backgrounds, Duh. See the things is: you grow up seeing poverty, you see sexual abuse caused by sexism, you see some other ugly things about the way our system works, and some things don't seem so funny. So I don't apologize for not being able to take certain jokes. On the contrary, I think one day you'll probably eat your words, b/c after all, I've known plenty of people who had your mindset at one point (whether that is believing the things you type, or simply thinking it's funny to type these things) and they grew out of it once they learned life wasn't their playground.</p>

<p>ID: How would you like it if when your daughter was looking at Swarthmore, some kid said these things to her about her chances? Is that perspective, or don't you care?</p>

<p>
[quote]
ID: How would you like it if when your daughter was looking at Swarthmore, some kid said these things to her about her chances? Is that perspective, or don't you care?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>1) I think brutal honesty about admissions odds can be a valuable thing. All things considered, College Confidential could use more of it, not less.</p>

<p>I don't rate the original poster's chances at Swat much higher than Duhvinci does. The class rank and admitted lack of effort in high school academics is a stiff obstacle. I think I've outlined to the poster that his only real shot is a full-court press, working that debate angle for all its worth. Given that he is applying ED to Penn, with Swat as a fallback, I don't see that as a likely scenario. I think his odds of getting into Swat as a fallback are very low. Duhvinci's splash of cold water is not unwarranted, IMO.</p>

<p>I think my daughter would probably say, "forgettaboutit" -- in part because she loves Johnny Depp and in part because she believes that, if you weren't OK with working diligently in high school (or brilliant enough to be val without working), Swat's not the right college. Half an hour a night of studying at Swat will not cut it.</p>

<p>2) I have the distinct impression that three of the student posters on this thread, including the original poster and Duhvinci, know each other from high school. If I'm correct, then the "you're a moron; no you're an idiot" nature of the exchange would make sense. Especially if they are all debaters.</p>

<p>3) I thought Duhvinci's response to Achat was really rude and uncalled for. But, I accept that college students can be rude. Duhvinci's got kind of a Bill O'Reilly curmudgeon thing working. Wouldn't surprise me if he shows up writing biting op-ed pieces for the Phoenix. You can always sit at the far end of the table in Sharples if it's not your cup of tea.</p>

<p>i'm sorry but is the water being splashed, cold? or is it scalding? at least put your swarthmore fanaticism aside and call it honestly when you see it</p>

<p>if duh is so much of a nicer person to his friends as he describes, then his acrid post here suggest someone with a personality that is seriously suffering from the splits. hopefully that bell tower is locked because when duh finally cracks because of the workload, people realizing how much of a tool he is, or his psychiatric issues finally bubbling to the surface, it will be pretty unfortunate if he has a “bird eye view” of the Swarthmore campus. you know, the Unabomber and every single serial socio-path was a single white male with a ceasar complex and contempt for others- and not getting laid too. sounds familiar duh?</p>

<p>ID, I agree that Duhvinci's response to Achat was really rude and uncalled for.</p>

<p>But I also find his statement "in light of the native american tip, chill should be able to get into anywhere, probably without even applying" to be extremely offensive, and I hope that this attitude will be socially taxing for him at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Or: "one kid turned down a part time instructor job this summer to help rebuild parts of mississipi (or was that missouri?) that still hasn't been rebuilt from katrina" - how ignorant one must be not to know which states needed rebuilding after Katrina? And he accuses others of being too self-centered in their ECs?</p>

<p>I doubt he'll be writing for Phoenix - there he won't be able to hide behind anonymity...</p>

<p>And I've known lots and lots of debaters. "You're a moron; no you're an idiot" was never their way to express disagreements ;).</p>

<p>
[quote]
I doubt he'll be writing for Phoenix

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're probably right. More of a Daily Jolter?</p>

<p>Exactly. There he'll fit right in!</p>

<p>wow, looks like some of us were really busy last night. first off, the posting to achat was admittedly harsh, but he deserved it. second, i want it to be clear that i never called anyone an idiot or any other such thing, i think that name calling is childish. also, nowhere in this thread did i claim i was a nice person, i yam what i yam. it's up to others to label me. although i may not know exactly which parts of the country other than louisiana and texas were affected by katrina, that is a far cry from inflating air into my ec's, one is an act of ommission while the other is a deliberate act. for those of you, which include achat, that hoped that i would not attend swarthmore or hope that i will crack under the infamous swarthmore workload, well sorry achat, i'm here, and to the others, don't hold your breath, maybe your kids are washouts and whiners, but i'm not, besides, the great thing about swarthmore is the support we get from professors and peers. as soon as i fully wake up, i'm going to go back to concentrating on how best to screw my roomate.</p>

<p>First, Achat is a woman, I believe. Second, in my opinion, ID did let you off a bit too easily. You're a college student, yes, but that's no call to be rude and offensive.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, despite the rosy pictures of ID and Achat, it seems to me that there are many more DuhVincis at Swat than I would have expected. Yes, there's a certain sarcastic sense of humor there, but it's much more effective when it's self-deprecating rather than belittling. I don't know whether DuhVinci is involved in any of Swat's "famed" causes, but I find it hypocritical for people to be concerned with the world as a whole to be uncaring about the feelings of someone right next to them, for example. As to The Jolters, I am of the opinion that people reveal more about their character (or lack thereof) with how they behave when they think no one is looking. You'd be right at home.</p>

<p>DuhVinci seems to be just this sort of "**** 'em if they can't take a joke" sort of guy. Please check in with us in the middle of your second semester at Swat--if you have the time. Or maybe you will be one those unengaged students who ignores their classroom preparation to continuously amuse yourself posting anonymous putdowns. There are more of those unengaged students at Swat than I would have expected, as well. I think my own personal response in the future will be the same I would give to a tantrum-throwing child begging for any sort of attention, no response at all. </p>

<p>Chillax88, sorry your original post has been reduced to this. If you'd like any other information, feel free to contact me.</p>

<p>yes, I am a woman and I am 49. And I guess I should stop posting here because this Duh guy is going to cut me to pieces? Wow!! </p>

<p>I suppose I should really go back to my job......</p>

<p>Well I read through most of the post and saw my name early and felt I should reply - for all who didn't know, the baseball coach was fired about two weeks ago, and honestly I don't think he did much for me (after talking to a few of my freshman teamates who sound like they were much more heavily recruited). That being said, the new coach is an alum and is awesome, and we're always looking for recruits, so if it seriously interests you PM me and I'll see what I can do - we'll host you, show you a good time, and talk to coach about/for you. GL man.</p>

<p>ok, i'm properly caffeinated up and ready to address all your comments.</p>

<p>first, fur uncle: the question posed to me at the end of your posting? yes, reminds me of someone. you. especially the not getting laid part.</p>

<p>interesteddad: i don't know who any of the posters on this thread are. also, i never engaged in "you're a moron, no you're an idiot." i never called anyone any names.</p>

<p>suisplau: i don't subscribe to the "****'em if they can't take a joke" theory of life. i do subcribe to the "if you're going to dish it out, you better be able to take it" theory. </p>

<p>achat: i apologize for the unduly harsh tone of my last posting, hard feelings still linger from our previous tete-a-tete concerning the haverford shirt, however, i'm sure that even you will agree that your postings are rarely relevant or germaine to the topic that you interject yourself into.</p>

<p>lastly, what does everyone expect from us? the us i refer to are swat kids. we're not pods. there is a lot of sarcasm here and there is a lot of competitiveness. the competitiveness may not manifest itself in grade grubbing, but in other less overt ways. how do you think we got here? i had to score higher than 99% of the country on the sat's to get here as did most of my classmates. i had to grade higher than all but two or three of my high school classmates to get here, as did most of my classmates. i couldn't have done that without being a little competitive. in terms of my bluntness, i haven't seen anyone in my dorm or my classes coddled because people were afraid that they would get their feelings hurt. if that is a side of swat you don't want to know about, go to the sites posted by ngnmm, they're sanitized for the sensitive at heart. regarding the op and that stupid comment about "how would your daughter like it if she posted a chances thread...." puhleeze. the op started the thread by stating he was ed for penn. he deserved whatever abuse came his way. its like asking suzy "hey, i'm going to ask your best friend millie to the prom, but i kind of like you, so what are my chances that you would go to the prom with me, if millie doesn't."</p>

<p>Duhvinci, sorry if you felt I interjected myself into a conversation. I just use this forum as a water-cooler stop at work sometimes to relax. Spending 60-75 hour weeks at work, I relax this way. Call me stupid. I was just trying to have a conversation with ID whom I know somewhat through the college and as a parent of someone I know. The comment may have very well been stupid. I suppose being out of college for so long, we do become stupid in that way and "lightweights" as you so aptly noted. </p>

<p>But I suppose you are right. I should not participate in these forums if I just stop by and interject myself and it is a stupid distraction for me. Taking a walk outside would help more.</p>

<p>"he started the thread by stating he was ed for penn. he deserved whatever abuse came his way"</p>

<p>Just because someone chooses another school over yours, does not mean he "deserves abuse" of any kind. It will be helpful for you in your future life to find other ways to treat your bruised ego. Talk about "sensitive at heart"!..</p>

<p>And the links I posted aren't in any way "sanitized". Those are actual students answering actual questions posted on the forum. There is plenty of sarcasm there as well, but for the most part it's not mean-spirited. And most of the time people are trying to be helpful, which is generally typical for Swat.</p>

<p>that stuff about how it's actually easier here than it was in high school? i take that back. look, lest anyone think i was not trying to be helpful, i will give suggestions to the original op as to how i think best to market himself for penn. this isn't anything that wasn't stated before only differently. interesteddad said to put a full court press on the baseball coach, forget the baseball coach, call the head of the admissions office for a meeting. once there, get someones ear and chat up penn and then ask who at penn is in charge of native american studies that you can talk to because you have a real stong interest in the plight of the native american. why? because great great ganddpa was a native american at the little big horn and only recently have you been exposed to that side of your family and it troubles you that the plight of native americans isn't more highly publicized and it's something you want to study extensively. then go to the head of that department and put a full court press on that department and keep it up until december 15. in the meantime, use creative ways to allude to the plight of native americans in the common app essay. do this without actually saying that you are native american, no need to beat the admissions office over the head with it. if penn has a 'why penn' type question on the supp, then take what you have learned from discussions with the people in native american studies and show how penn can help you and that by helping you, they will be helping the native american population as well because you will do great things for the native american population and penn gets all the credit for that because it was penn who will make you who you will be. remember to be subtle while going native american 24/7. this entire process may not be easy because being 1/8 native american is an afterthought to the op (why else would he mention it so late in the thread), but i believe all one needs is 1/16 to be considered in a particular ethic group (but don't hold me to that). once you're in, you're in, but it would be nice if you followed up on all the mumbo jumbo you passed out in your essays. there, i'm being helpful just like nngmm says we generally are. remember, anyone could come up with this stuff, it's how can state it with conviction while being subtle about your native americaness that will pull it off. good luck dude, i hope you like penn, u of or state, either one.</p>

<p>Boy, /that/ was eloquent. I'm sure the Admin at Swarthmore would be impressed. Seriously now, Duh, wouldn't you be proud if someone brought this thread to their attention?</p>

<p>In the name of my Native American cousin I would like to say some things myself. However, I'd be far more satisfied getting to say them face-to-face, so I might as well restrain myself.</p>

<p>
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Seriously now, Duh, wouldn't you be proud if someone brought this thread to their attention?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Why does anyone think that the administration at Swarthmore gives a rat's behind what students write on College Confidential?</p>

<p>Swarthmore is philosophically about as far from in loco parentis as you could possibly get.</p>

<p>"that stuff about how it's actually easier here than it was in high school? i take that back."</p>

<p>Aww, shucks. Does that mean the great Duhvinci might not get the near-perfect undergrad GPA necessary to be accepted into a top-15 professional school? If that were the case, I guess it wouldn't really matter what college you went to. what a bummer...</p>

<p>I'm sure for some people, Swat /is/ easier than high school. That's why class rank is not a definitive measure of capabilities, dears. I have some friends from Nigeria, and in Nigeria high school is notoriously harder than it is in the U.S. Just one example...</p>

<p>ID: I'm not a mindreader of the admin at Swarthmore the way you are. I'm also curious why you want to defend this kid -is it b/c once upon a time, you could imagine yourself in his shoes? However, I know at Smith some students were actually disciplined for posting offensive things on the jolt. Whether Smith is that different from Swarthmore I don't know. In general, free speech ends where harrassment begins in this country, and I've noticed in the past couple of years it seems to end quite a bit sooner. Even if the administration at Swarthmore wouldn't or couldn't take action, I somehow doubt they would like how this reflects on their school. For someone who is so proud of his school, I would think Duh would hold some of the college's central mission in his heart, which would include not saying things to be deliberately offensive to certain groups of people.</p>