<p>Yesterday I was at my eagle scout board of review and one of the committee members asked where I wanted to go and what schools I was applying to. I told him MIT was my top choice and I guess he didn't like that. I knew he had gone to RPI and he said that real engineers go to RPI or Clarkson. Their all just nerds over at MIT. HE then went on to say how they treat their undergradutates terribly becuase they favor graduate students and research. I can see MIT might lean towards graduates and research, but I highly doubted undergraduates were mistreated. I was about to argue, but decided against it considering he was going to be apart in deciding whether I got eagle scout. I'm guessing he had some visceral hate for MIT for some reason. Maybe becuase he applied and didn't get in, I don't know. Anyways I just felt like sharing that.</p>
<p>P.S. I'm not saying RPI and CLarkson are bad schools at all, just saying they are not of MIT caliber.</p>
<p>I've heard that "graduate students and research are prioritized" argument a lot, and as a graduate student I have to say I find it bizarre. Listen, I'm a graduate student. Graduate students are not taking attention away from anybody -- we live in the lab and do nothing but research.</p>
<p>One thing I really valued about MIT was that professors respect the undergraduates -- in a lot of ways, undergrads at MIT are treated like graduate students, but with more attention and guidance. Undergrads can take graduate courses anytime they'd like, and many classes are joint grad/undergrad classes. Undergrads are a valued part of the research team in labs all over campus -- I was published on a high-impact paper as an undergrad, and I even got to write my own (not so high-impact :)) manuscript. Professors are happy to talk with interested undergrads, and I barged into faculty offices uninvited and unannounced much more frequently as an undergrad (which is to say: that sort of behavior is tolerated out of undergrads, but not grad students!).</p>
<p>Research is certainly a big part of academic life at MIT, but undergrads are an important part of that research -- a focus on research doesn't mean that undergrads are neglected. Learning at MIT is a collaborative effort between undergrads, grad students, postdocs, and faculty members.</p>
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I've heard that "graduate students and research are prioritized" argument a lot, and as a graduate student I have to say I find it bizarre.
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<p>I find it bizarre because of its assumptions about what is valuable to undergrads. If all that mattered in terms of educational quality was having quality lecturers, and exposure to graduate students was automatically detrimental, then yes, going to a research university for undergrad might be inadvisable. In reality, however, graduate students are often valuable role models and mentors, and their presence means that graduate-level classes are offered (and thus, that undergrads can take more advanced coursework). Having them as TAs means that you get to hear the material in more than one teaching style and setting, which is useful for many people. And a research emphasis means that there's usually higher-quality research and more funding, so undergrads have more opportunities (and higher-impact opportunities) to do research. It also leads to opportunities for undergrads like the chance to get a job operating the nuclear reactor - if a nuclear reactor wasn't needed for professors' research, there wouldn't be a nuclear reactor on campus for those undergrads to work at.</p>
<p>I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but this is a popular-enough argument on CC that it seemed worthwhile to address it.</p>
<p>lol, "Graduate students are not taking attention away from anybody -- we live in the lab and do nothing but research." Too true. As an undergrad I'm more sorry for them than anything else.</p>
<p>Well, he’s wrong about the focus on graduate education to the detriment of undergraduates - but as for what school is best, it’s entirely about match. I have good friends who did insanely well at and since RPI and Clarkson. SAT scores don’t matter one whit.</p>
<p>Well, certain fields of engineering correlate better to academic prowess than others. Software development and certain aspects of mechanical engineering require skills that really aren’t measured by one’s ability in school.</p>
<p>I’ll agree with MITChris (who should know) that it really comes down to matching the student with the school. That said, MIT does do a lot of research work. So, IMHO, if you want to get the most out of an MIT education, get involved with some of that research. MIT becomes much more interesting if you do, classes become much more relevant and you have a much better chance at the job of your choice when you graduate. It can also make a great summer job. MIT had UROP (Undergraduate Research Oportunities Program) many years ago when I was there. I assume that they would still have that or a similar program. It is the oportunity to get involved in the high end research that, again IMHO, sets MIT apart from other schools.</p>
<p>As an MIT undergraduate, I hardly feel like I have gotten the shaft because I go to a research university. Professors teach classes and are all accessible should you want to go talk to them. I usually don’t even notice that there are so many grad students on campus because most of them are only in lab anyway. The ones who make MIT what it is as far as a culture are the undergrads.</p>
<p>i am an RPI grad and i regret not having done any research…at work i’m just the guy who can derive equations, and has no practical sense whatsoever…</p>
<p>wanna go back to grad school and do heavy amounts of research this time…</p>
<p>I’ve heard that “graduate students and research are prioritized” argument a lot, and as a graduate student I have to say I find it bizarre. Listen, I’m a graduate student. Graduate students are not taking attention away from anybody – we live in the lab and do nothing but research.</p>
<p>I know this is old. But since people are commenting on it, I’m going to say this - I think what people are (very poorly) articulating when they make the “bizarre” claim is just their fears and insecurity that at this big research school where the concentration of genius professors hits the roof, who on earth cares about me, this lowly person barely beginning my education, even if I was a good student in high school? After all, the graduate students probably spent 4 years feeling like crap somewhere, studied a whole ton more than I did, and the professor has divided duties, and probably only cares about his duties as a researcher towards people who’re experienced…or worse yet, he only cares about a few of his favorite grad students who work on stuff that interests him. Who knows, right?</p>
<p>I think it’s a legitimate concern, and I would have had it several years ago, to be honest. It’s a lot easier to find the concern bizarre once one has done independent work with professors, crossed the barriers of actually trying to do research, etc.</p>
<p>I tend to write a “debunk the myth” blurb many times, but this insecurity is probably where the myth originated, at least partly.</p>
<p>^ While I can’t say anything in this case (I know some people think MIT engineers are too theoretical to be useful… which needless to say does not match my experience), but I have gotten some oddly defensive responses to saying I go to MIT, often along the lines of “Oh man we beat you in this one competition one time” or “oh man I totally met this MIT engineer who was an idiot”, silly things like that. </p>
<p>It seems sort of tactless to me, though a friend pointed out that the same sort of talk happens between people in schools where sports is huge.</p>
<p>^ I stopped telling people I’m going to MIT after I got several strange responses over a 48 hour time period, but I have to say I think Harvard kids have it worse as far as the defensive/tactless comments go. With prestige comes those who like to deprecate.</p>
<p>^ lol no. I mean, I will tell them if they press but I usually just say Boston and then immediately talk about how excited I am to be in Boston… and usually they just leave it at that and talk about times they’ve had in Boston or friends/relatives they have there.</p>
<p>but I have gotten some oddly defensive responses to saying I go to MIT, often along the lines of “Oh man we beat you in this one competition one time” or “oh man I totally met this MIT engineer who was an idiot”, silly things like that.</p>
<p>I think it may correlate with the same batch of people who tend to obsessively glorify certain schools, not for what they are, but for their prestige. Once you really get to know what something is, the need for all the silliness goes away, or so I think :)</p>