<p>i know it's important to do what you love, but it's okay for some people to sacrifice some of their happiness for a more secure job. i used to think i could just go to college, graduate, get a job, and i'm set. but i never realized how rocky the path would be for liberal arts undergrad (unless you know lots of people who have jobs to offer). i did want to major in something i liked for grad school, but what if i don't want to go to grad school. am i going to be doomed..</p>
<p>Well, can't liberal artsies just take 1-2 years more for education certification and earn a decent buck (50K if you aren't an art teacher lol)</p>
<p>50K as a teacher? I wish.</p>
<p>It's good you realized that just because you went to college you're not automatically set up for a good job. This is especially true if you don't major in something vocationally related like engineering, nursing, accounting, etc.</p>
<p>However even though you realized a liberal-arts undergrad degree doesn't guarantee a job, it doesn't seem like you've done much investigation into how those kids DO get jobs. The only path is not "unless you know lots of people who have jobs to offer". Furthermore if you look at the people out there who have decent jobs, most of them don't have grad degrees. Most people in the country do not have grad degrees. It sounds like you still believe that 'degree == job', only you've refined it to be 'vocational undergrad degree, or grad degree if your undergrad was liberal arts'. There are plenty of people with grad degrees in history or poli sci or whatever that don't have good jobs, and plenty more with just history and poli sci undergrad that DO have good jobs.</p>
<p>People with liberal-arts majors CAN get good jobs, but it takes more than just the degree. Career investigation and preparation needs to be an activity you do the 4 years you're in college, aside from the classes you take. Good grades and involvement in leadership activities is important, but the KEY that is needed for grads in these majors are internships. They set you apart from the 1000's of other kids with the same degree, give you experience in the field, and usually lead to offers from the companies where you had internships. Other companies are impressed by the internships and take a much closer look at you.</p>
<p>People with liberal-arts degrees are not doomed to flipping burgers. Most people in management positions came up from these majors. One issue when answering questions like the one in this thread is that most HS students are just not yet informed about all the jobs that are out there. They can name only a dozen or two jobs, so they have no idea of how people enter career fields they don't even know exist. This narrowing of focus means kids talk about the same few jobs as if that's all there is -- lawyer, teacher, accountant, doctor, investment banker, etc.</p>
<p>I would suggest the OP read 2 books. The first is "Major in Success" and explains with many stories how college students can discover their interests and prepare for jobs pursuing those interests while in college. The second book is the bible of the job-hunter, "What Color is Your Parachute". This book also helps you discover what your interests are and how to determine where out in the working world you can do it.</p>
<p>In college social life and academics should intertwine.</p>
<p>In college you should make lots of friends with many different interests. Connections are really the only thing that'll get you far in life. </p>
<p>To get these connections you have to do some internships, socialize and be able to use your people skills very well.</p>
<p>I'm a freshman majoring in film production and I'm ahead of several people in my class and even some juniors in my major because I got to know a few VERY powerful people. (I didn't know that they were though. I was just kind of talking to them about sports and now I already have a guaranteed internship in LA)</p>
<p>Social interaction is KEY.</p>
<p>$50k for a teacher? No, we treat out teachers like crap. We pay them $32k starting, and they usually have to bring their work home, they teach 5 classes, coach sports, teach CPR, sex ed, you name it. Plus, we expect them to be responsible if a kid keels over and dies in class because of an allergy.</p>
<p>Private school isn't that much better. They get paid $40k in an area where you need around $60k to live normally, they coach sports two trimesters out of three, most teach 4-5 classes, hold extra help hours, serve as advisors, some serve as college counselors on top of that, and some are department chairs on top of that (yes, on top of being BOTH ADVISORS AND COLLEGE COUNSELORS). So college counselor, advisor, teacher, manager, babysitter, coach. Add on top of that for teachers that live in the dorms, they have to be "on duty" twice or three times a week. By the way, they still have to prepare 4-5 different lesson plans on top of all the other crap we expect them to do.</p>
<p>In the meanwhile, anyone who can avoid being a teacher is doing so.</p>
<p>wasup futurenyu. BTW i'm not doing so bad at theupdown. Actually i've become obsessed. hehe</p>
<p>The teachers at my high school were paid $40,000 and up. My history teacher (only a Bachelor's degree) was paid $66,000, my principals salary was $85,000 and my superintendent's salary was somewhere around $105,000. It all had to do with what degree you have and how long you worked at that school. (yes I lived in a pretty rich town)
Although the pay was very high (for teachers) some teachers were definitely not worth it.</p>
<p>Liberal art students are awesome (I am one).</p>
<p>I'm an econ major without aspirations for i-banking (because I'm not a delusional loser).</p>
<p>What am I going to do? NOT work for a large company in hopes of climbing the pyramid and becoming a CEO. Enough kids are already "certain" they will achieve that goal.</p>
<p>What will I most likely do, then? Work a non-glamorous sales job, most likely a car salesman, morgate broker (if the market ever picks up), maybe a stock broker at some crap place. I want to excell among morons in a smaller talent pool, than get sponsored to become a Financial advisor. After that, I want to set up my own independent advisory practice, bringing some of my old clients with me. I want to hang out with common folk and local business owners in my area, living a real low key lifestlye. Ideally, I'd save to buy up some small business/rental properties and grow those. Hopefully, I'd end up with a pretty decent net worth. All of that is highly obtainable, and not really involving too much pressure.</p>
<p>DO what you love! If the department is very good at training students, you will be prepared to handle ANY job you want out there. Majoring in something means being able to learn something that you like. Most departments teach similar sets of skills across the board, just have different ways of approaching on teaching them.</p>
<p>Become an I-Banker. Period. /thread</p>
<p>or work as a bartender and make $1500 a day (i'm not joking. if you work at a nice fancy hotel you'll make half a million a year. this is what my bartending instructor makes at the four seasons.) Most of it will be in cash so not a lot of taxes to pay either.</p>
<p>also you could invest a little in stocks every year and eventually it'll grow big enough to become your retirement fund. </p>
<p>kick back and relax.</p>
<p>If you don't want to take the grad school route, focus on getting work experience and leadership experience during your undergrad. Take up some extra-curricular activities and try to get a summer job that is more than just retail. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm an econ major without aspirations for i-banking (because I'm not a delusional loser).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>^The sad thing is that I know wayyy too many people who are said delusional losers. The "I'm going to be a CEO/I-Banker at the age of 27"-type. Most everyone in my econ classes... sigh. </p>
<p>I'm happy some of us are reasonable. :) </p>
<p>As for me, I'm probably doing the liberal arts thing and going to law or grad school... I have a few years to decide on which.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I want to excell among morons in a smaller talent pool
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No you don't. At least I don't. I'd rather be in the middle of my graduating class at Harvard Law School than graduate as a valedictorian from Brooklyn Law School. Think about it. You're in a spectrum. Unless you're THE best, someone's ALWAYS better than you, and someone is ALWAYS worse than you. Being a middle-tier associate at Cravath/Wachtell is much different than being the best associate at some regional no-name law firm, you know. You shoot for the best, but be prepared for the worst, and dedicate yourself entirely to achieving the best. THAT'S how you become successful.</p>
<p>I'm not looking at I-banking. I'm looking at working in some financial services capacity while I save up enough money to go to law school, so then I could leverage the connections I made in financial services as a corporate attorney. For that to happen, of course, I'd need to be working for a F500 or at least a middle market ibank.</p>
<p>I used to be one of those "delusional losers" but now I'm the "I'm going to make biglaw partner by the time I'm 40" type, which, by the way, is very realistic, even if you graduate law school at 30.</p>
<p>krnpsychopath....I got my ass kicked this month. I lost like $70k or something after my portfolio gained $60k or something like that. I think this is the only month where I made less than 1% gains. By the way, the job description was for a post at a posh private school that I went to. Trust me, teachers are treated like crap. I know, my mom went to teachers' school.</p>
<p>Anyone can get a job with any degree, just not necessarily a good one.
I would say that if you have valuable skills for the job then you are well off (im planning on taking TONS of languages, which should help me with what i want to do) So if you can learn some type of valuable skill in college, do it. Obviously learn to think, but it is good to expand your abilities by either learning a new language, public speaking, management, etc.</p>
<p>Futurenyustudent:
your plan is actually pretty sound, in terms of probabilistic reasoning. If you have the motivation/talent to get into a top 30 law school, the odds of success are quite high, as long as the passion remains. </p>
<p>My response is more to those who look to gain riches in a way where there is a large degree of randomness involved, and where capital so highly scalable...i.e., becoming a rock star, a hedge fund manager, a CEO of a large corporation-these proffesions do not have equally growing labor demand as profits grow.</p>
<p>On the contrary, as a law firm gets more cases, it will hire more lawyers. A medical practice needs more doctors if there are more patients.</p>
<p>BTW, the best predictors of success in industry are largely out of your control: they are things like your ethnicity, your golfing ability, your height, your physical attractiveness, gender, pre-exisitng connections, etc.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, my portfolio is up while all the major indexes are down-my sharpe ratio is over 2 and my alpha is over 35%.</p>
<p>wutang, that's a revelation I came to a couple days ago. I figured, well, since there are probably more partners at a law firm than there are managing directors at an Ibank of similar size, and once you're in a top10 law school, becoming a biglaw associate is rolling out of bed and turning in your resume (it's a little harder for top30, much harder for anything below that), and since your job at biglaw is just about secure once you survive the 3-year crucible that is being a junior associate, I have a higher probability of making partner than making MD. And the attrition rate at biglaw is much lower than at IB...of course if I get passed up for partner, I can always remain there as counsel. I'll make a little less than a junior partner, but I'll also work less.</p>
<p>I also know myself and I also know that I work best under pressure.</p>
<p>Why does everyone seem to think all teachers are poor? The teachers at my hs (which is public btw) start off at like 40k, and end up making around 80k (with their masters though). A select few (department chairs, etc.) bring in over 90k.</p>
<p>Yes, but factor in the cost of living. If you're a teacher in NYC where the cost of living index is an estimated 2-3 times the national average, you're living a lifestyle that is below that of the average American, even as a department chair. And think about how much they're working. They teach 4-5 classes a day. They oversee the ENTIRE curriculum of a department at a public school (or private school). Even at my tiny private school where there were only 150 students per graduating class, in one department there are 15-20 different courses. The department chair has to be familiar with the lesson plans and the content that is taught in ALL of these courses, and on top of that, teach a course or two of their own, and that's usually 5-6 sections. They manage the teachers that work in the department. They interview prospective teachers. They have to serve as advisors, and some department chairs in my school serve as college counselors on top of coaching sports 2 semesters a year, serving as advisors to 20-25 students, overseeing the teaching of 15-20 different courses, and teaching 70-80 students of their own. On top of that, teachers that live on campus have to "be on duty" two or three nights a week, as if they already don't have a free minute to themselves. Ultimately, the hours that a teacher works work out to be about equivalent of first year biglaw associates. Yet biglaw associates make $200k fresh out of law school and department chairs make $90k. I'm saying that relative to their pay, they're treated like crap. I never said that teachers make no money, but relative to their pay, they work too much. Granted, biglaw associates don't take 3 months off a year, but most teachers don't either. They have to work as consultants, tutors, summer school teachers, whatever, to make ends meet.</p>