I’d like to major in Chemical Engineering. I’m not afraid of hard work, but I am afraid of a cutthroat environment or never leaving the library due to a ridiculous amount of work. Between Princeton, Rice, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, MIT, Brown, UPenn, and Cornell, which is the best place for this? Are there any particularly glaring cons of some over the others?
You will work very hard as a chem e anywhere.
I’m not familiar with all the schools on your list but I will speak to the two we toured and researched (my DD is a chem e).
Northwestern - they are on a quarter system, not semesters. That means they are covering the same material at a much quicker pace. Students tend to take one less class than at semester schools but that was enough to scare my daughter away after talking to NU chem es.
Cornell - I’m an alum, had a super experience there as did my husband and all of his family. Couldn’t wait to tour with our daughter. She hated it. She felt the vibe was way too competitive and cutthroat in engineering. She also hated that she couldn’t declare her major until 2nd semester of sophomore year. There was a trickle down effect to not declaring for competition teams, research, etc…
Hopefully others will chime in about the other schools.
And Brown, for chem e…why?
First time I’ve heard declaring a major sophomore year as a negative. I always thought it was a positive.
That way, you come not sure what “flavor” engineering you want best, you have time to figure it out .
Or, you come in thinking you want chem E, but then you start taking courses and find out you are actually not that good at chem e- related courses, but some of that mech e stuff is pretty interesting… so you wind up declaring mech e, though that was not your intention before you started actually taking courses and learning more about what different engineers do, and what you are good at.
But I do understand if it delays certain activities, just never thought about that before. Probably because all the programs I was considering also had students commit sophomore year.
I don’t think “cutthroat” is accurate. In my day there, engineering students studied together for freshman exams, and my D2 indicated that still happened. There are curved classes and a lot of smart students in those classes, so students need to work hard to do well. That doesn’t mean they are stealing your homework.
Cornell does require frosh engineering students to meet GPAs higher than 2.0 in early courses to declare most majors, but it looks like all of these gatekeeper GPAs are in the 2.x range (chemical engineering needs a 2.2 GPA to declare; the most difficult major is engineering physics that requires at least a B- in each prerequisite course). So it does not seem like that should generate much in the way of cutthroat competition, unlike at schools where the gatekeeper GPAs are much higher.
It’s funny, DD’s school has a much higher GPA threshold to transition to major but the overall feel of the students and classes felt just more collaborative to her. Almost all her courses are collaborative, project based. Teamwork is essential and stressed from day one, even during freshmen orientation. Walking around campus, it’s very rare to see someone studying alone, it’s always groups of kids clustered together and interacting. She just didn’t see that at Cornell. OP - YMMV!
@moneydad - You make a valid point that declaring a major sophomore year unto itself isn’t bad but when it creates a gate to keep students from doing things earlier, that was a problem for DD. When we toured Michigan, we spent a good amount of time in their workspace for their chem e car, solar cars, concrete canoes, etc… The message from every student was “if you are interested, sign up for a team from day one.” They said an upperclassman would take a first year under their wing, teach them what they need to know, and get them involved. It would be basic at first, but anyone could be part of a team. At Cornell, it’s a competitive process to get onto a team, and you can’t do it until after you’ve officially declared your major. It also impacts timing of co-ops (which while not as popular at Cornell, they do still offer). My DD just felt that was a big difference in timing to access opportunities.
I agree that the not being able to declare which field of engineering until sophomore year doesn’t seem like a negative. I mean, kids are still admitted to the college of engineering for freshman year and there aren’t caps on how many can declare any particular field of engineering within the COE. I haven’t read anything about not being able to participate in competition teams or research until then either. From what I’ve read on their website and Reddit, freshman do participate in those activities.
Further, the benefit to not affiliating until sophomore year is that it gives students time to learn about fields they didn’t already know about, before they commit. My d19 is planning a ChemE major but found it intriguing and flattering to get an email from the Materials and Science Engineering Department reminding her that she can change her plans and affiliate with theirs instead, which many ChemE majors may be interested in but don’t yet know much about. It seems pretty positive to me that a path is recognized but still has room for change.
Regardless of your stats, you need to add a safety to your list.
As for the cons for late declaration of major, it depends on how competitive it is. Some schools have a limited number of slots and getting a major can be very stressful. It also depends on the school’s approach to early specialization. Unlike probably most schools where students do the same thing first year, my son’s school has very tailored, department specific curricula. Students who are unsure can switch, but its a little arduous. They can also get locked out. It’s just a different way.
This thread is actually interesting in that it highlights some actual differences between programs and approaches.
And some possible implications.
As for collaboration, my experience at Cornell is so old as to be likely meaningless, But FWIW,
The intro engineering course required a group project, and I recall a number of engineering labs were done in groups. Also as I mentioned some engineers in my dorm chose to study together for exams but that was their choice.
I can see where this is an area that schools might conduct themselves variously.
Also some people may like groups more than others.
Getting back to OP:
Back in antiquity I had a friend who did undergrad Chem E at Cornell then Grad at Penn, where he TA’d undergrad courses…
He told me the undergrad workload, etc was essentially identical.
IMO it’s hard to turn down MIT as an engineer. If I got in there and thought I could survive it I would go, myself. But it will be tough academically, obviously.
Rice is probably good at Chem E, so is Princeton I think. Lots of oil &gas companies in Houston, chemical and pharmaceutical companies in New Jersey.
But all these places are going to be tough, don’t kid yourself.
Opportunities outside of Chem E may vary among these schools, if that is important. I think the NE schools will be more heavily recruited for investment banking, for example. I’m not sure how many actual working chemical engineers Princeton and Brown turn out, or even Penn, you should inquire if you care.
Then of course there’s the question of which you like better in all other respects.
Have you been accepted into these schools? What year are you?
Yes, I’ve been accepted. I’m a high school senior.
If money is not a factor - that is you can afford any of them, I would think MIT and Princeton would be on top of the list - a lot of opportunities in research and projects in both. Also, you might decide that Chem E is not what you want after all, and they are excellent across the STEM fields.
You have an impressive long list to choose from and I assume too many to attend accepted student days. Do you have a particular concentration within CBE that interests you? Is there a school size, region, climate and rural or city environment you prefer? The happier you are, the easier it will be to complete the difficult curriculum.
Some factors that helped D1 choose. Size of CBE graduating class (too small meant that she was always with the same classmates), number of elective spaces to pursue a concentration including graduate classes (compare course planning guides) , research opportunities with other departments (med school in her case), eliminated schools where other engineering students did not know any chem eng classmates because they did not share classes, have time to mingle or no one was smiling. She thought that the percent of students heading directly to the workforce was important but after research experiences, grad school is now the next step.
We have only been to MIT, Penn and Cornell, and they are very different environments. I agree with the Brown? unless you want a tiny department.