I’m trying to help my kid decide on a major. She’s set on being an engineer despite being an average math and science student. Whenever she took honors classes she’d struggle but in the Advanced level (it’s the middle level in our district) she’s an A student. However she got great grades in geometry and trig but not great in algebra and Pre-calc. I realize a very important aspect of engineering is the application of math to the sciences. Which is where her honors Physics teacher commented is her greatest challenge. So my question is whether there are engineering disciplines where a student with very good observation skills and understanding of trig would benefit most?
What appeals to her about engineering if she’s not strong in math and science? What kinds of experiences and exposure has she had to engineering that has put it on her radar?
I honestly don’t know that there are any engineering discipline that isn’t going to require strong applied math and physics skills. My husband is an ORIE which he jokingly calls “fake engineering” because it’s more business manufacturing focused but, he still had a ton of math and advanced calc based statistics. My daughter is on a chem e track and will have calc through multivariable, calc based stats, plus two more required math “electives”.
I’ll be curious to read other responses from the professional engineers in this group.
There is definitely alot of Math in Engineering! You take 4 semesters of Calc/Diff Eq to start with.
So I don’t think that one Eng is easier than the other as it pertains to Math.
With some types of engineering, you have to take a Professional Engineers Licensing exam to really be able to work in that field…for example Civil Engineering.
Is she interested in medicine? Biomedical Engineering would be an idea.
Does she want to build things? Then Mechanical.
I majored in Electrical Engineering…but quickly learned i didn’t like all the hands on stuff…I have a job where I need the technical background but don’t build circuits, etc.
Try http://tryengineering.org/play-games/what-kind-engineer-are-you
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/2017/engineer-quiz-eweek.html
for fun
She might like something like Human Form Factors which is more a design kind of discipline.
Or if she likes hands on stuff maybe a degree in Robotics. WPI has a degree in robotics that is gaining in popularity and WPI loves females wiih an interest in STEM fields.
Yeah I thought that @rightcoaster…WPI sent so much stuff to my DD, even when we lived in Germany so I had her apply…but they only gave $15k in merit so no thanks to (at the time) $45K tuition
Can you afford a math tutor? Some kids learn differently. Some teachers don’t know how to teach to kids that learn differently. Sometimes it’s not the math but a visual processing issue. She will need the math through calculus as stated. Observation skills? Need more information about her strength and what her interests are .
To suggest robotics because it’s “hands on” as an alternative for a student with poor math skills misrepresents robotics. It’s not LEGO robotics. At WPI Robotics students take the same math as nearly every other engineering discipline and it gets used in the design of robotic devices, especially if you program learning algorithms into them. I’d be very cautious of pushing someone who has trouble applying math skills to any engineering discipline. Why is she “set on engineering”? What does she expect engineering will be like?
She might consider Engineering Technology which has much more applied courses and less theoretical. My understanding for example would be an Engineering technologist would be working with the robots ie processes, maintenance etc, not designing robots. It would be less math and physics intensive and dwell more with practical application. No she wouldn’t technically be an engineer but she would be working with them.
Purdue Polytechnic has a lot of technology degrees. Just something to consider.
I recommend against engineering if one finds math and physics to be more than just a challenge. If one struggles with math, engineering will be a tough grind since all engineering courses utilize mathematics. That is not to say difficulties with math cannot be overcome with diligent work, but if it is a constant struggle to keep one’s head above water just to pass the courses, a different major would be a better choice.
Of course, one must pass the foundation math courses - which in engineering consists of Calculus 1-4 (encompassing differential, integral, multivariable, vector, and integral theorem calculus), and Differential Equations. In addition to these courses, many engineering and science courses further develop math that is specific to those subjects (e.g., the systems theory course in electrical engineering develops Laplace and Fourier transforms, the network theory/electronic circuit design courses develop lumped and distributed circuit descriptions using differential equations, physics develops integral theorems that are used to describe Maxwell’s equations, both EE and ME use complex functions to describe stability of electrical and mechanical systems, etc.
Engineering technology generally relegates one to a technician level position in many industries. If that is what your student wants, that’s great, but generally speaking her career will be limited to that. Purdue is an overrated school IMO. Most highly regarded engineering schools do not offer engineering technology. Like many schools with both engineering and engineering technology (I taught in one for example), they may try to steer students who are having trouble in engineering to ET, because it is “easier” (less theoretical math and science). The school I taught in for example used to tell those students they would have the same opportunities in ET as in engineering, which to me is a falsehood. I hope Purdue is honest in this regard.
I don’t mean to derail this thread. @bopper what type of engineering for someone who is strong in math/science but does not like to build? She like challenging math type problems.
“Engineering technology generally relegates one to a technician level position in many industries. If that is what your student wants, that’s great, but generally speaking her career will be limited to that. Purdue is an overrated school IMO. Most highly regarded engineering schools do not offer engineering technology. Like many schools with both engineering and engineering technology (I taught in one for example), they may try to steer students who are having trouble in engineering to ET, because it is “easier” (less theoretical math and science). The school I taught in for example used to tell those students they would have the same opportunities in ET as in engineering, which to me is a falsehood. I hope Purdue is honest in this regard.”
First of I’m going to agree with most of your post with the exception of Purdue being an overrated university. Since it’s an opinion I’ll leave it at that. I believe there are plenty of students for whom a technology degree would be a good fit and is worth consideration. There are students who would like to be doctors that don’t have the necessary aptitudes to become a doctor but can be successful in other medical fields. I look at this relationship in a similar vein. I agree that if a university is saying they are the same thing they are being deceptive. In Purdue’s case they are two completely separate colleges within the university and share few if any of the same courses so I doubt that the university is attempting to mislead anyone.
Industrial engineering involves using math and statistics to solve optimization, process, logistics, and operations problems.
At some schools, a similar major called operations research may be offered as a non-engineering major, or a subarea of math or statistics.
Some business schools offer a supply chain management or logistics major, but that is typically much less math and statistics intensive.
“I don’t mean to derail this thread. @bopper what type of engineering for someone who is strong in math/science but does not like to build? She like challenging math type problems.”
Industrial Engineering of course. My cat has better calculus skills than I do, but once I started hitting the more advanced math and especially probability and statistics based courses it was a lot of fun. Computer Science also works.
Thank you both!
@BingeWatcher, what do you mean by this: “what type of engineering for someone who is strong in math/science but does not like to build?” Clarifying that is VERY important. ME/AE, specifically fluids involves very complex, but different math than IE.
@eyemgh, D21 has worked through “Art of Problem Solving”: number theory, probability, Algebra1, 2 Alg 2 and some Pre Calc and some of their contest books She has a strong foundation is Algebra so she should do well in calculus. She taking pre calc in school right now, will take Calc BC in 11th and Multivariate as self study in 12th. Does this help?
@BingeWatcher, no, I’m not asking about her math prowess, but what you mean by “does not like to build.”
The math of IE is different than the math of say fluid mechanics. Both are mathy, but completely different, neither or both of which might have to do with “building” depending on what is meant by that.
Well she has not had a desire for Robotics in school. I guess what I am trying to say is, if she does not have a brain that shows a particular desire to tinker around but is strong enough in math/science, and likes to struggle with difficult math problems, would there be a engineering discipline be a good fit.
@bingewatcher Is there a reason your daughter doesn’t want to major in straight math?
@BingeWatcher I am going to let you know what we did since my son was /is a math kid also. He actually did several summer engineering programs through out high school to make sure he enjoyed this type of learning. He is in industrial at Michigan as a sophomore. He is more into the business aspects of engineering and likes but doesn’t love physics. Financial engineering might be something he will look into but he has a ways to go so who knows. He loves the learning process that only engineers go through.
When taking him to see schools we had him meet with professors to ask about other careers with math besides engineering. At University of Chicago we met with the head of the math department. Besides him loving this question the answer basically was… What can’t you do with a math degree!! He just rattled off professions left and right but opened our eyes to the possibilities. He also gave my son a calculus problem to show him how they teach. Much more basic then what you would think. My son had Calc 3(multivariate Calc) as a senior in high school so the problem was pretty basic anyway to him… Not me… Lol.
When going on the Michigan tour he met with both engineering and the Actuary head of the Department. He was actually very intrigued with Actuary.
So my suggestion would be to meet with a math professor at a college and discuss the many fields of where math can take you. It’s not just all teaching. Ie:a math degree with CS minor is a very strong degree.
For my son it just lead back to engineering but learning about all the possibilities was fascinating to me.