Recommendation Letter trouble

Graduate School
1

<p>Hello all-</p>

<p>I need some advice on a situation.</p>

<p>I'm applying to Masters in Applied Stats programs at a handful of schools.</p>

<p>Trouble is, I'm having some issues with gathering my letter of recommendations here (I have a deadline January 20th and most others are February 1st and beyond).</p>

<p>Thing is, I majored in Political Science and Psychology. Although I'm really good at math and took a ton of math courses in high school (BC Calc, Multivariable Calc, Diff EQ) -- and stats courses in my majors, the trouble is finding professors that A. know me well and B. I've done stats projects for --- has become increasingly difficult.</p>

<p>I ended up asking a Russian prof and Advertising prof to write me letters (and they are almost finished) because they know me very well. The third prof was going to be the most relevant as I did a major stats project for her for political science. Problem is, I emailed her two weeks ago, and again a couple days ago, and I have never got a reply back. I know profs are on vacation this time of year, but the other two replied, so I don't know.</p>

<p>Thing is, she was my most relevant prof, and with the other two profs being wildly outside the pail of stats, I'm a bit nervous now.</p>

<p>Assuming this prof doesn't respond until it's too late, or never does, what are my options here?</p>

<p>The only other profs I'm looking at is either</p>

<p>A). A civil war professor that knows and likes me well. But this would only add to the comedy of my recommendations, would it not?</p>

<p>B). A grad student instructor for a psychology course where I completed a major statistics project. Trouble is, it was junior year, about 3 years ago, and I'm not sure this instructor would remember me or not, like at all. I still have the project and can show it to her, but ... it's iffy, you know? There's a good chance she wouldn't remember me remotely, outside of the 30 page stats research project I send her, and maybe a few scripted things/ my thoughts about who and what I did in class I would send her.</p>

<p>So what do I do here? What are my best options?</p>

<p>Do I ask the grad student instructor or Civil war professor to submit the rec letter for all of my schools?</p>

<p>Do I tell one of them to submit a rec letter for the January 20th school, and wait a bit longer (I think my old Poli Sci prof gets back to school Jan 16th) --- for my Poli Sci prof to potentially submit a letter for the remaining schools with deadlines in early February and later?</p>

<p>Another fun fact. My old Poli Sci prof MOVED to another university after I graduated. Not sure if that matters or not. I ended up asking the department secretary of that school about a good way of contacting her (well, I already have her new email address and tried emailing her twice), but have heard nothing back from her either (I guess everyone is still on vacation).</p>

<p>I just need some help here... I'm stressing big time.</p>

2

<p>Call or visit the office of the poly sci prof on Tuesday (assuming Jan 2 is a holiday at your school). IMO, it does not matter if the recommendation comes from someone at your school or not - professors move, change jobs, go on sabbatical, whatever. As long as they know your work and can speak 1st-hand about you. </p>

<p>Also, folks in the math/stats department in your school probably can advise what they think their counterparts will look for in recommendations for graduate study.</p>

3

<p>You should not wait for her Email, and you should just go to her office.</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the tips, so I take it you guys think I should hold out?</p>

<p>There is the distinct possibility that I will never get a hold of the Poli Sci prof in time.</p>

<p>Two things.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I graduated from university a year and a half ago. I live in another state 1,000 miles away. I can’t get to her office without an airplane and a wad of cash, or looking like a psycho, lol.</p></li>
<li><p>I’m not concerned that she’s now a prof at another school. It just means, her old email doesn’t work, I found her new email, but I’m not 100% sure about when school starts or what the situation is at the new university she’s at - if she’s still teaching there next semester, etc.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I suppose I can call her office January 2nd but she will likely not be in the office at that date (it’s a vacation day for most) – heck as a professor she might not even be back in her office until the semester starts, which can be anywhere from January 10th to January 17th like their school website says. By that point, the first deadline (Jan 20th) will already be missed, provided she agrees to write the recommendation.</p>

<p>I’m thinking I should probably look for a backup now, but my options aren’t terribly strong. I’m just wondering if I should tell the backup to send the rec for the one school and hold out for the rest, but that might prove to get awkward later as well.
Any other advice?</p>

5

<p>For the masters, depending on the competitiveness of the school, it’s probably going to come down to your lower division preparation than anything else. </p>

<p>If you are this worried, contact the actual head of graduate admissions at the college you are interested in and inform that the LOR from the instructor who can speak to your statistics preparedness is in a bit of flux. However I really wouldn’t worry about it too much; it’s your undergraduate mathematics courses that are going to sink or swim you (along with GRE scores if they require them - quite a few masters programs do not).</p>

6

<p>Well, might as well tell you that the January 15th deadline school is Purdue.</p>

<p>How would I got about finding the head of graduate admissions?</p>

<p>I guess there’s not that much I can do now to improve my math background, however, I’ve taken BC Calculus (5) and also multivariable calculus and Diff EQ, along with a host of stats courses for the social sciences, and am enrolled in Linear Algebra at a community college at night for the Spring (I already graduated school and am currently working).</p>

<p>Anyway, at the admissions deadline, doesn’t the admissions office start looking at complete profiles anyway? So if there’s missing pieces (Like missing recs that are coming a couple weeks late) — they are just going to evaluate you as is anyway? Hmm… Well I’ll think on it. For now I might have a backup rec writer write the third one to Purdue, and wait on the Poli Sci prof for the rest potentially. Otherwise the rec simply won’t get in on time, I think.</p>

<p>Hopefully my academic stats and test scores carry me a long way. :-/</p>

7

<p>I don’t know what BC Calculus is; all they are going to care is that you have had differential, integral and vector calculus (Calc I,II,III). A lower division course in linear algebra is not going to hurt, but if you are taking it at a community college it’s probably not going to get into the nitty-gritty that they generally want you to have (ie proof based Linear Algebra, which is an upper division course); you’ll know how things work (in a linear setting), but not why - whether or not that matters is up to them, but Purdue lists Matrix Theory, which is all kinds of vague if you ask me.</p>

<p>Something tells me if they admit you, you’re going to be taking a few UD math courses to get you provisionally ready to begin stats coursework. But then again theres not a whole lot of information on their website for Masters applicants; much of the information for pre-reqs applies to PhD candidates.</p>

<p>Like all progras though, they are going to review complete applications first. If its time to send out offers they can do one of two things: inform you that you need supplemental material or simply not bother with your app until its complete in their eyes. </p>

<p>In any case you have until the 15th to get materials in; which leaves perhaps a week or so for recommendations before they start evaluating applications.</p>

8

<p>Eh… well maybe I’m not a prepared as mathematically as I thought - I mean I know I’m CAPABLE of the math — I just hope they will let me prepare myself the summer before and hopefully not judge me too harshly on it for my application, though they probably will.</p>

<p>Well, what can you do? I do have a few ‘safer’ schools that I think I have good shots on anyway, Purdue and Illinois are basically the biggest reaches I’m going for. I’d be ecstatic if either one let me in by some miracle. Hopefully they are hurting for money and want to admit more masters students lol… :-D.</p>

<p>Anyway to introduce a bit of drama into this thread, my poli sci prof finally contacted me — now mind you, I haven’t spoken to this person in 2 years.</p>

<p>Anyway, the other two professors love me and were super friendly and nice.</p>

<p>However, although I had a good relationship with this professor, never said an offensive word to her, I now have cause to believe that the REASON she left this prestigious university - that I think she worked at for 10 years — and inexplicably began working at some unknown place (I assumed she went there because of different research interests or her husband, now I’m not so sure) ---- is that there must have been some sort of falling out or massive drama there where either she was ousted or had to leave or SOMETHING.</p>

<p>Because she sent the following curt reply:</p>

<p>Well, I’m not going to type the whole thing because it’s dripping with some sort of contempt for some reason (again, I sent her a total of two emails over a period of 30 days) — but she mentions “I universally do not write rec letters for [prestigious university] students.”</p>

<p>Then she says if you are looking for a rec letter contact [bob robertson] at [prestigious university’s] political science department.</p>

<p>What the frack? Who is that dude? Why would he write me a rec letter? Is the dude in the department that fracked her over or something?</p>

<p>Quite bizarre — well, looks like I’m going to the psyc stats grad student or the Civil War professor … oh boy lol. Well, what can you do. I’m not going to be the CC hyper-uber applicant I suppose.</p>

<p>But ***? This professor says she universally doesn’t right letters for [prestigious U] students? What the frack does that mean? </p>

<p>By the way, she actually WROTE ME ONE BEFORE. Before I graduated (and while she was still working there) in spring 2010.</p>

<p>Something must have soured there, considerably, for this kind of — unprovoked contempt? I don’t know. I wasn’t her favorite student ever, obviously, but I always showed up to class and everything. Just wow. I will be showing this hilarious email with friends.</p>

9

<p>Oy, drama. Get the letter from the Civil War prof over the grad student; letters from grad students don’t carry any weight, even if they’re more “topical” to your application.</p>

10

<p>I’m curious what schools you are applying to that required LOR’s for their Masters programs.</p>

11

<p>Thanks for the advice.</p>

<p>However as I looked into it I think the Civil War instructor was actually just a lecturer and not even an assistant professor. Would no doubt write a decent recommendation but not that topical to stats; if that matters or not.</p>

<p>The grad student stats instructor — yeah not sure. I did create a 30 page independent experiment stats project for that course (the course was about statistical methodology in psychology).</p>

<p>Yes, a grad student of course is not going to have the credibility or value to a panel of professors, but what are my options? Plenty of people have their supervisors/ work bosses write recommendations, and usually they aren’t professors of course.</p>

<p>Other options I see are a bio psych full professor from senior year who probably won’t know me too well or a cognitive psyc professor from senior year - huge lecture hall of students - but I DID complete a project that she placed in the “top ten” for the class (of like 300) — so there’s that. Thing is outside of that project (which was mostly psychology and no statistics) — not sure how much she’ll be able to comment on me, unless she just makes stuff up or rights some generic statements.</p>

<p>Yeah well my LORs might not be the strongest. Right now I’m thinking either the stats project grad instructor or possible the full professor in cognitive psychology who I suppose enjoyed at least one of my projects.</p>

<p>ANDS!, all the MS in applied stats programs I’m applying to require LORs, most require 3.</p>

<p>Illinois Urbana Champaign 3, Purdue 3, Iowa 3, Michigan State 3, Loyola 3, Northern Illinois University requires 2.</p>

12

<p>To be honest, I think the letters are going to be the least of your worries. From your OP I’m assuming your exposure to statistics in college has come from courses designed for Psych majors? Generally these focus on application and not theory; for MS thats not going to be that great of a problem, but you are no doubt still going to be competing against individuals with strong quantitative backgrounds (even if their majors aren’t mathematics - for example econ majors who have perhaps had a class or two in uppder division mathematics). </p>

<p>If you had strong letters that could speak to your ability to make up lower/upper division math deficiencies - they are not going to count calculus as having been met in high school, unless its that calculus that transfers over to college; you’re still going to need Linear Algebra (proof based), and a formal mathematics course (how to write proofs). I think this combination may be a bit too much though, especially considering some of these campuses have Top 50 ranked Stats programs (of course people aren’t knocking down the door to get a stats degree, and if you want to go unfunded by the dept, your chances could certainly improve).</p>

<p>Long story short - w/o knowing your complete undergraduate academic history its hard to say what kind of success you’re looking at here, but the combination of academics outside of mathematics and LOR might not be so great.</p>

13

<p>Well of course it’s not optimal, but I’m going to give it a swing.</p>

<p>I do have formal credit in Calculus 1 and Calculus 2 at University.</p>

<p>I’ve also taken Differential Equations and MultiVariable Calculus (each a semester long). Surely that counts at Calc 3? I’m not sure. EDIT: Calc 3 is vector calculus aka Multivariable calculus. This has been taken and Aced by me.</p>

<p>Most programs say through Calculus 3 is required + Linear Algebra (taking this spring) + (Statistics and Probability 1) <---- not sure if this is a formal proof course of what.</p>

<p>I also have a 3.79 from Rice University, and yes both my majors, political science and psychology, have had formal stats courses for each major. You might consider them ‘light’ I suppose, but the courses were indeed straight math — there was no ‘social science’ bend to them, other than perhaps the scope of the course. t-test, F-test, chi squared, multivariate ANOVA, probability distributions. Further courses in the field have led me to create my own logit and probit models for major research projects as well.</p>

<p>Yes it is low level stuff in the field of statistics, but in terms of meeting pre-reqs, or proving I can handle the math to admissions committees… I don’t know. Should my math background be something I focus on in the personal statement, ie explaining why I believe I am capable and prepared for a masters program in statistics?</p>

<p>Also, econometrics, as high as it goes in most BA economics, might be conceptually difficult but has nowhere near the level of math of multivariate calculus and differential equations.</p>

14

<p>Also I’d like to add that to acquire a PhD in political science, psychology, economics, etc — you pretty much have to get an MS in Statistics along the way practically, albeit perhaps one that’s a bit watered down.</p>

<p>However the typical political science, psychology, economics major does not have the math experience or abilities that I do, in my opinion.</p>

<p>You are right though in that it might be quite the uphill battle on this one in terms of convincing the admissions committee.</p>

15

<p>I could be wrong, but I think you’ll fare pretty well. Yes, there might be some concern about your math prep, but you’ve satisfied the pre-reqs and you’re applying to Masters programs at (mostly) second- and third-tier places. </p>

<p>You’re basically asking the adcom to “impute” your stat potential based on your record in unrelated classes. Committees may differ in their imputation functions, but they’re all doing it.</p>

16

<p>Wait, if I took 2 courses from a Ph.D student in my UG and the student will be a Ph.D by the time I graduate, then I still shouldn’t get a letter of recommendation from them?</p>

<p>I mean I’m like 6 courses into my major and I’ve had exactly two classes that even had professors associated with them. (well technically one of them was a Ph.D qualified “Instructor”) Also, this next quarter the only professor I’ll have who is related to my Major(s) has a title of “Lecturer” and that Major (Math) is not what I’d be pursuing graduate studies in.</p>

<p>So should I not use a letter of recommendation from the ABD Grad student I’ve taken two classes from who has said he would be willing to write one?</p>

17

<p>My main focus (Economics) is being supplemented by the Math major. But the way they run Econ here is that you don’t even get a whiff of a professor in ECON until the 400 level.</p>

18

<p>That gives a better impression of your undergrad experience. I would still apply, the worst they can say is no and they’ll give you reasons why (if you prod). Letting them know that you are taking care of some of the math before you’re finishing your undergrad is definitely a good move.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Not to help thread-jack, but you want letters from people who can speak to your qualifications in one way or another (for example, I got a LOR from the chair of the BioStats division for internship experience); theres nothing saying a PhD candidate can not do that, especially if they are in their research phase and their experience qualifies them to accurately judge the work of others.</p>

<p>However, your best bet yes is to foster relationships with professors; TA’s wont be teaching all of your classes. If neccessary force that relationship. You can also do this by chasing down undergrad research opportunities.</p>