<p>Thanks ucbalumnus! Several of the schools on his list have that 3-2 arrangement (Fordham and Pomona come to mind as well as a school we had considered, Reed). Westminster seems to have that arrangement with USC and WashU. Do you know if these types of arrangements are difficult to actually get through because it is so hard to get into the last 2 years for the engineering schools or are the engineering schools understanding of this arrangement? i.e., if a student has a GPA above a reasonable level like 3.3, they are likely to complete the process or is it insanely competitive as it is to get into those schools from the beginning, such as CalTech with Pomona.</p>
<p>Many students who start at small colleges/LACs with the intent of doing a 3+2 program don’t follow through because they find it too difficult to leave their friends after 3 years together. You will have to check with Westminster to see what kind of stats would be needed to transfer into those schools.</p>
<p>Thanks Erin’s Dad! I may also be able to find out what the track record is of those who indicate 3-2 and then are able to do it.</p>
<p>Other hurdles for 3+2 program completion:</p>
<ol>
<li> At the “3” school, majors may be limited. For example, Westminster requires 3+2 student to major in a science. This prevents students from using the extra year of schedule space to take humanities and arts as your son may want to do. Some “3” schools like Brandeis allow any major, if the lower division courses for engineering are also taken.</li>
<li> It is a five year program, where the student needs to wait until the fourth year to start upper division engineering courses.</li>
<li> Admission to the “2” school is not guaranteed. It may require a high GPA, or a competitive application. Normal transfer to other schools may be limited at that point, since the student will have senior standing at that time (most schools prefer normal transfer to have junior standing). USC as the “2” school has competitive admissions for 3+2 transfers: <a href=“http://viterbi.usc.edu/admission/transfer/threetwo.htm”>http://viterbi.usc.edu/admission/transfer/threetwo.htm</a> . WUStL requires a 3.25 GPA and recommendation; it is not clearly stated whether it is competitive beyond that at <a href=“Dual Degree Program | McKelvey School of Engineering at Washington University in St. Louis”>https://engineering.wustl.edu/DualDegreeProgram.aspx</a> .</li>
<li> Expect scholarships to be non-existent for transfers. Westminster’s “2” schools are USC and WUStL, which are both expensive privates.</li>
<li> Because the “2” school choice is limited, the student may not find a good fit at them.</li>
</ol>
<p>Point being, a 3+2 program is a poor choice for a safety for a student with a strong interest in engineering, unless the student specifically wants a 3+2 program for some purpose (and chooses the specific 3+2 programs that are suitable for that purpose).</p>
<p>He should choose a safety with native electrical and computer engineering programs to avoid the 3+2 issues. Yes, it is late in the stage to be selecting schools (admission and scholarship deadlines are coming, some as early as 12/1), so it may be worth throwing in applications at safeties of possible interest (perhaps Texas A&M, Alabama, etc.) even if he would otherwise not be sure if he wants to apply there – he can decide later if the applications are in, but not doing the applications closes off those options.</p>
<p>What is the state of residency?</p>
<p>Good points, thanks ucbalumnus. We are in California. It can’t hurt to toss in an app to one of those schools; what do you think of Case Western? Do you think it is not likely that he would get into Northeastern? I had looked at that as a somewhat safety. Or UC Santa Cruz?</p>
<p>UCSC’s frosh admission profile is at <a href=“http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/campuses/santa-cruz/freshman-profile/”>http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/campuses/santa-cruz/freshman-profile/</a> . Other UCs’ frosh admission profiles can be looked. But use care when assessing chances:</p>
<ol>
<li> GPA listed is UC-weighted GPA (10th-11th grade, up to 8 semesters’ of +1 honors points).</li>
<li> Different divisions or majors may be more selective than others.</li>
<li> Use of essays means that admission is not based on stats alone.</li>
</ol>
<p>As a California resident, I would suggest that he applies to all UCs and CSUs that have his intended major and which he does not clearly reject attending. Since the application deadline is coming up, it is better to have some possible extra choices in April than to regret not having applied to some of possible interest. Note also that applying to many of the almost-safety schools makes is very unlikely to be rejected by all.</p>
<p>Among CSUs, the best known for electrical engineering and computer engineering are CPSLO, SJSU, and CPP. SJSU is in a very good place for Silicon Valley computer company recruiting. The CSUs other than CPSLO are purely stats based within major and local area considerations, although the stats threshold are not known until after the admission cycle is done. SJSU appears to be the only one to publicly post stats thresholds: <a href=“http://info.sjsu.edu/static/admission/impaction.html”>http://info.sjsu.edu/static/admission/impaction.html</a> (these numbers are the CSU eligibility index calculated at <a href=“Cal State Apply | CSU”>Cal State Apply | CSU; ).</p>
<p>thanks ucbalumnus! SJSU looks interesting; will look into it further.</p>
<p>I will highly recommend SJSU as a safety over UCSC. As a Bay Area resident and closely connected with CS professionals, I know SJSU is a feeder school to all the big name employers. My nephew, now a CS graduate and a potential Google employee, who was admitted to UCLA, had a second thoughts on SJSU because it is closer to home.</p>
<p>thanks artloversplus… I had read that SJSU was I think the number 2 or 3 school behind Stanford and Berkeley for hiring at Google or another big company in Silicone valley.</p>
<p>Remember, UC and CSU deadline is in the next few days. Get those UC and CSU applications in to avoid closing off those options. Recommend including UCSC and SJSU (and others under consideration) in those applications even if unsure – better to have a potential extra option later than the regret not applying later.</p>
<p>Drexel is a solid engineering school that gives full tuition scholarships for NMF’s. Like Northeastern it is a 5 year coop school. They are ABET accredited. EA2 Deadline is 12/2 and I don’t believe there are any supplements for engineering majors. Wouldn’t be a safety but would be a solid march. </p>
<p>Thanks sudsie!</p>
<p>Added more uc schools, thanks ucbalumnus.</p>
<p>Some questions about UAB: is their deadline 12/15 to be considered for the NMSF scholarship? Do test scores and transcripts have to be received by that date? For some reason, I had 12/1 in my mind as well. Is this scholarship automatic or have most been given out already? Thanks.</p>
I have a strategy question regarding finances and the 3-2 program. Theoretically, let’s take the combo of Westminster and USC as an example. He advanced to National Merit Finalist so that should mean that he would get a full ride at Westminster for the 3 years he is there. IF, he gets in and goes to USC, would he go for half tuition since that is what USC does for NMF? He would end up paying one year’s tuition and two years of housing/food at USC to do the 5 year program? If he got into USC directly, he would end up paying 2 full year’s tuition and 4 years of housing/food at USC as a NMF. Likewise with Fordham/Columbia combo though that would cost more due to Fordham giving full tuition, not full ride.
Oh, and Columbia would cost more than USC.
Not sure why U Pitt dropped off due to location since Carnegie Mellon (which is on the list) is in Pittsburgh. UT Austin has the automatic admit 7% for in state students not for out of state students. It is considerably harder for out of state students- not a safety school. But a great school and Austin is an incredible city to live in. This is from an Austin resident whose son is at CMU. BTW, my son loves Pittsburgh.
You need to contact Westminster to see what the requirements are to get into USC on the 3-2 program. Then you need to ask them (or USC) what scholarship options are available. I really doubt USC would offer the 1/2 scholarship for NMF to a student that didn’t pick them as a freshman.
thanks Erin’s Dad.
Good pick up on that discrepancy about UPitt vs. CMU! I didn’t even realize that myself, hidden bias. I would just explain it as the location was not a draw but we had heard such great things about CMU that we felt it was worth it despite the location. Ended up liking Pittsburgh well enough; how does your son like CMU, goingnutsmom? btw, like your name!
Did he apply to SJSU? Seems like he should have already gotten a decision (which should be an acceptance if his CSU GPA is 3.6 and his ACT is 36, since that gives a 1080 eligibility index that exceeded all majors’ thresholds for SJSU this year: http://info.sjsu.edu/web-dbgen/narr/admission/rec-10079.12651.html ).