<p>For Vicissitudes, now you can never say you never heard of a black valedictorian. <a href="http://www.emergingminds.org/magazine/content/index.php?itemid=3619%5B/url%5D">http://www.emergingminds.org/magazine/content/index.php?itemid=3619</a></p>
<p>Hahahah. Cool article!</p>
<p>I'm sure most people understood that my point was that this is very rare, and that this may not be entirely due to socioeconomic differences. That's all.</p>
<p>I agree that it is not UCLA's fault if African Americans are not meeting the standards for admission. But some of you can never relate to the struggles poor people (not just African Americans) have to endure. I believe income status not race, should be part of the admission process. I myself am African American and would be considered poor. I never knew my dad, my mom is disabled, and I have three younger siblings. For the past three years I've had to work 45 hours a week while attending school full time. I busted my ass to recieve admissions to UCLA for Fall 06 with a 3.83 gpa. I love hearing comments such as blacks are generally trouble makers with no drive or ambition. Because it only motivates me more to succed so that I can shatter that image.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well guess what, in 10-15 years from now when we've run short of skilled workers, when we've got all kinds of social problems because we live in a stratified society (i.e. no one being able to move up or down economically), then it will be part of your problem.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Most economists agree that the US is sitting pretty, both in its capital (factor markets included) and in its prospects for the next couple generations.</p>
<p>What we will not be doing, however, is moving back to a production based economy anymore. There's no money in it. As someone from AEI opined on NPR the other day, "The Chinese factory makes $10 on every iPod manufactured. Apple, on the other hand, makes $100. Where's the money?"</p>
<p>Simple. In the service economy. </p>
<p>And for that very reason the US is sitting pretty.</p>
<p>Just to clear myself up, when I said some people were being ignorant in their earlier posts, I was referring to people who were saying that blacks were the "jocks/troublemakers at schools" and that it isn't a problem at all. I completely agree that this situation is not UCLA's fault and I believe that anyone UCLA accepts is completely qualified and justified in being here. However sometimes in life the problems of others are heaped onto you, even if it's not neccessarily your fault it can become part of your responsibility. It should be a problem for the kids and families in the black community, it should be a problem for the educators in the K-12 system, and ultimately institutions like UCLA will be part of the equation.</p>
<p>You have no idea how many poor Asian folks I've grown up with that have sent their kids to college. So many of my friends parents can barely speak any English yet despite that their kids are well on their way to earning degrees. I've known plenty of black kids too who have made it despite the odds. I've known plenty of people who are dirt poor, black, Latino, and Asian, who've all succeeded. But you can't just look at one set of exceptions and expect that to apply to the whole. Yes, there are some Asians who've come over as dirt poor political refugees and been able to succeed, but the vast majority of Asians who are able to emigrate to America are fairly well off in their home countries. I'm not just saying that, that's just a fact. Do you honestly think that the most dirt poor of Asians, living in a shanty town on top of a landfill in the Philippines, or farming in the countryside of China, or being oppressed in North Korea, have the ways or means to move to America? By in large, most Asian immigrants to America have chosen to be here, were fairly well off in their home countries (many of them with professional degrees already), and that's the group of people who are mostly sending their kids to college. It's also easy to ignore the problems of Asians in America who actually do still live in poverty, given that they are a minority of a minority, but the same percentage of Asians live in poverty as do in the general American population (about 15%), and they face a lot of the same problems that all poor people in America face... crime, gangs, etc. .... it just doesn't get much coverage in the media or anywhere really.</p>
<p>I'm just saying, you can't just throw one set of circumstances onto another. It's not UCLA's fault, I believe UCLA should always take the kids they believe are best qualified for the spot no matter what. If a kid can't read or do math competently by the time they graduate high school, that's not exactly something UCLA can fix, that's 12 years of f-ing up already. Nothing can catch them up at that point. It's not UCLA's responsibility to fix 12 years of crappy education. But to blow that off as not even UCLA's concern is stupid. Like it or not our society has taken this responsibility to educate all our citizens competently, and if huge parts of that population can't move on to higher education then somewhere along the line we are messing up. We've got to look from the ground up at how were educating all people. I don't want UCLA to start factoring in inequalities in admissions as much as I want our whole society to start removing those inequalities in the first place.</p>
<p>UCs basically take people based on performance, and unfortunaltey it is hard to be "diverse" when you tend to admit people by numbers.</p>
<p>Do you understand that different UCs have different processes, and that some are very not numbers based?</p>
<p>I agree with almost everything you've said, McGrizzle. However, a significant portion of Asian immigrants ARE dirt poor. And no, we are not talking about political or religious refugees. My parents, and the majority of Chinese immigrants in San Francisco are from the country-side of China. In most major cities such as SF, and NY, most immigrants from Southeast Asia are usually poor as well.</p>
<p>im so glad theres no affirmitive action... otherwise the whole system would be totally screwed up. sorry!</p>
<p>Smith415</p>
<p>don't be sorry!</p>
<p>what school do u go to smith? im also from sf</p>
<p>It's funny - I highly suspect that certain UC schools have anti-Asian admission policies at this point.</p>
<p>Based on . . . ?</p>
<p>Anecdotal evidence.</p>
<p>Very interesting discussion. I personally was offended when I watched the news and saw black UCLA students DEMANDING that UCLA fix this problem. Our generation needs to get past the issue of race: the most qualified students should get in. Period. End of discussion. Racial and economic assumptions are just that, assumptions. There comes a time when people have to take responsibility, and that includes working hard in high school to EARN a place in our top schools. All high schools are not equal. True. However, working hard at any high school will get a student into college, maybe UCLA, maybe not. What seems to be missed is the fact that there IS a spot in higher education for EVERY student who has the drive to want it, but that not everyone belongs at UCLA. No point in an unqualified student being admitted into UCLA, because they will be eaten alive by the competition. NO student should be denied a spot in UCLA because another student, less qualified on an objective basis but of a certain race, is given that spot.</p>
<p>the problem that frustrates me is that colleges shouldnt be the band-aid to socioeconomic disadvantages. this solution ("AA" in privates, "comprehensive review" for UC's) is temporary and far too small. it doesnt solve inequality. outreach programs only work for the few that have overcome obstacles. it doesnt solve inequality either. </p>
<p>i'm in favor of racial and socioeconomic diversity and to an extent, giving a bump to those who are socioeconomically disadvantaged. but it really makes me annoyed when students go out on bruinwalk and protest the low historically underrepresented minority enrollment numbers. their time could've been better spent by tutoring that 2nd grader in compton. whatever colleges can do, it's too late in the game and will only have a minimal effect. </p>
<p>what people SHOULD be doing is addressing education at the lower level, like for kids in grades 1-4. cuz by grade 5 they're already a few grades behind, and that's too late. or at the very least, outreach to eighth graders so they can enter high school with a goal to go to college. outreach programs that target 10th and 11th graders, good for them, but we already missed out on a huge crowd that didnt prepare for college in the first place. </p>
<p>yes, inequality is a public problem. and i know UC's are public institutions. but they should not hold the burden of being the sole solution, cuz frankly i think that's a failed strategy. </p>
<p>moral of my argument: go out and tutor; there's plenty of clubs at ucla where you can be a tutor to a socioeconomically disadvantaged kid. your time will have been better spent than protesting on bruinwalk.</p>
<p>because this is a multi-pronged topic, it's so hard to for me to agree with one side.</p>
<p>african americans are subjected to several disadvantages that aren't always their fault.</p>
<p>it can also be argued that many african americans just don't try as hard as other ethnic groups as a whole.</p>
<p>on that case, it's hard to come to a conclusion as to why so few african americans are being admitted, however i think we can all agree that there isn't much more ucla can do about it.</p>
<p>x-posted parents forum (coureur)</p>
<p>For more discussion/viewpoints.</p>
<p>More whining from African-Americans over NOT giving them special priviledges? What's new? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>While the low number of Blacks enrolling at UCLA is unfortunate, some people seem to be forgetting that a much larger number of Blacks transfer to UCLA from community colleges in California. Those Blacks who were denied entry for the freshman term could attend a junior college for two years, work hard and transfer to UCLA for the junior year. This is a better route than denying qualified applicants their rightful place in the university. If anyone is denied admission to UCLA, it is not the university's fault. It is the fault of those students who chose not to study or were unable to for certain reasons.</p>