<p>I gave my daughter the link to this thread and got this reply:</p>
<p>"mom most scroungers are living off campus and they eat scrounged food for lunch when they don't have time to make something themselves. sheesh. correct everyone including yourself please."</p>
<p>Sorry about the error, everyone.</p>
<p>What I don't understand is why anyone is scrounging at all. Seems like a very strange custom. I've gone to several colleges in my day along with all kinds of kids, including ones with VERY little money and ones who lived off campus, and I've never seen any of them scrounge leftover food off the trays of others. Everyone always bought or brought their lunches or ate in the dining halls. I mean you might see two close friends or roommates split a burrito or something, but the only people I've ever seen anywhere engage in true scrounging of food from strangers were homeless people and bums.</p>
<p>What is it about Reed that permits a custom like that to be socially acceptable among students? Or maybe it's common at other schools too and I just didn't know it. Did anyone else encounter scroungers who were students when they were in college?</p>
<p>I've never seen it anywhere except Reed, where it , apparently, is a strange part of the campus culture. I heard that they even have a "Scroungers' Ball" event once a year. (And food can be bought for cash in the dining hall, so it's not like they don't have a choice...)</p>
<p>OK, what gives with the objection to the scrounging? You think it's better for food to be thrown away than eaten by someone who wants it?</p>
<p>I suppose there is nothing intrinsically wrong with scrounging. And for the truly desperate and/or destitute I would even recommend it. But a campus culture where it is common to beg for food from strangers for no reason other than you live off campus and didn't allow yourself time to pack a lunch is alien to anything I've ever seen on any other campus, or any other place at all for that matter. But it occured to me that perhaps it was more common than I thought, and I just hadn't seen that many different schools, hence my question. So I have no real objection to it. It just strikes me as really, really strange.</p>
<p>Coureur, given the size of Reed, I doubt that any student is a "stranger" after about the third week. You are talking about a college with a total enrollment of around 1,300 students -- and there's only one dining hall there, right? </p>
<p>I don't know, I've spent the last 20 years or so finishing off whatever my kids left uneaten on their plates - not so good for my weight, unfortunately - but I don't like to see perfectly good food go to waste. So if Reed happens to have evolved a culture where some kids save money by intercepting the food before it goes into the trash bin, it seems like a win-win situation - less garbage, less waste, etc. I'm sure that in an environment as small as Reed, the students who scrounge are very familar to the others, and the scroungers probably quickly learn which students are happy to share and which seem offended when asked.</p>
<p>Scrounging is very interesting but anthropologicaly is not true scrounging.
In "animals" you would see a hierarchy of the dominant animal eating first then others would step in, @ Reed scroungers stand at a railing and whomever the plate is placed next to begins eating- and sharing generally with those along side.( I haven't seen scroungers ask anyone for food- they all stand in same place and you pass by on way to bus your table. If you have a lot of food left you place it on the railing if you want) There doesn't seem to be competition between scroungers and while they generally live off campus, some are attending Reed with trust funds and the "poverty" they affect reminds me of wealthy students during the 60's wearing rags to be "of the people".
I have given them food when I bought something that I didn't like, and I think students don't share if they have a cold or something that they could pass on. just another one of Reeds quirky characteristics.</p>
<p>Don't you just love CC? Where else would you find about "scrounging?"--probably not in a glossy college brochure! Personally, I have no problem with it. I know when my kids forget their lunch money (Jr. High, High School), they somehow always manage to be fed something, thanks to the kindness of their friends.</p>
<p>One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that there are unofficial, but strict, guidelines for scroungers--and scroungees. When I went to Reed, these rules were actually written in the student handbook. Scroungers, for example, had to ask politely before taking anything off anyone's tray. As for those on the meal plan, I remember one memorable commandment: "Thou shalt not mustard thy milk."</p>
<p>Emeraldkity ... there are plenty of kids who attend colleges like Reed who do not have trust funds to live off of - they may rely heavily on financial aid that doesn't quite make ends meet. Reed's financial aid packages are not all that generous, and they do not guarantee financial aid to first year students -- so there are probably plenty of kids who are having a tough time, and food costs can mount up. That doesn't mean that the kids are exactly out on the streets - just that it's very possible that the scroungers you see at Reed are meal-skippers at other colleges.</p>
<p>Actually, Reed ranks second in the nation (behind Mount Holyoke) among topranked colleges and universities in institutional need-based aid per student. Doesn't say that packages meet folks' actual need, but they are hugely generous compared to competing institutions.</p>
<p>Mini, those stats might simply mean that Reed has a higher percentage of students who qualify for need based aid -- i.e., more poor & working class students per capita, less trust fund babies. </p>
<p>Again, Reed does NOT guarantee to meet aid to first years studentsl Reed policy is to prioritize aid for continuing students - thus they promise to meet need only for students who have completed two semesters at Reed and who are also in good standing as far as GPA. Some, but definitely not all, incoming students do get aid -- but the aid is leveraged to favor some over others.</p>
<p>In fact, I just checked stats at the princetonreview site, and it says that 56% of Reed students receive need-based aid, but only 43% of Freshmen get the aid. So basically you are looking at about 13% of the freshman class who probably qualify for need-based aid but don't get it. </p>
<p>The problem is that stats don't tell you what the true situation is -- "need based" aid is always calculated by subtracting the student's EFC from the cost of tuition and room and board, and Reed has a high tuition - so again, those stats only tell you that those Reed student who do get aid have lower EFC's than is typical - and Reed's tuition is high, so more dollars are needed to meet it. Mt. Holyoke, by contrast, gives aid to 62% of its freshmen (and, of course, Mt. Holyoke has more freshmen coming in each year than Reed). One reason that Reed appears good on a statistical measure of average-per-student is that they save money by denying aid to a significant number of incoming students who have need. </p>
<p>The Reed practice of promising aid only after the first year would tend to encourage students to try to come up with the money from other sources - like borrowing - for the first year, with the expectation that they would qualify for aid in later years -- which would create a large segment of debt-ridden freshman, and students in later years who are receiving dollars based on a need calculation that doesn't take into account private debt they may be carrying from their first year. </p>
<p>Bottom line -- I think its a mistake to assume that the scroungers are trust fund babies pretending to be poor. Maybe some are -- but Reed probably has a large number of students who have significant financial barriers.</p>
<p>calmom I know that there are kids without trust funds at reed, but from my own observation and my daughters some of the kids who are scroungers could very easily afford to pay for their meals, but they get a kick out of scrounging for some reason.
It had also been our experience that Reed gave very good financial aid, even to someone who was significantly below their stats and even though she applied RD not ED( even though they state for freshman year best bet for aid is to apply ED) freshman year. Her aid has not changed from year to year.
They do vow to meet 100% of EFC so I don't see how they could actually deny aid to students that they admitted and that qualfied for aid. I know they are need aware, but if they weren't going to offer aid, why would they admit?
If they did, they could no longer claim to meet 100% of need. It is true it is FAFSA's version of what you can pay, not your own, but by being pretty resistant to sob stories without documentation, it keeps it fair. They did adjust aid when we submitted documentation of decreased income.</p>
<p>I haven't checked to see Princeton Review site but this is what Reeds site says
They do meet 100% of EFC</p>
<p>
[quote]
Knowing Reed: our financial aid policies</p>
<p>Most schools use nationally standardized formulas to determine your expected family contribution. Once that contribution has been determined, however, the financial aid packages offered to you can vary greatly from school to school depending on institutional resources, policies, and programs. To understand how financial aid works at Reed, you must understand that:</p>
<pre><code>* Reed has no merit aid. All of Reeds financial aid is based on need. The goal of Reeds financial aid program is to give an educational opportunity to students who need help funding their education; therefore, the college does not offer any merit-based financial aid. Our philosophy is that everyone at the college benefits from having a diverse student population from a wide range of economic and social backgrounds.
* Reeds funding priorities determine who receives financial aid. Reeds primary commitment is to fund our continuing studentswe want to ensure that once a student starts at Reed, he or she can afford to stay. After reserving funds for continuing students, the college funds first-year, transfer, and international students who demonstrate need, who meet all admission application deadlines, and who submit their application for financial aid by Reed's preferred filing deadlines.
* Reed meets 100 percent of demonstrated need. When Reed offers institutional financial aid, the financial aid package meets 100 percent of the students demonstrated need. Demonstrated need is not the amount you think you needdemonstrated need is determined by Reeds financial aid office using nationally standardized formulas, institutional policies, and by carefully assessing the information submitted on the Profile and the FAFSA, as well as the Reed financial aid form and student and parent IRS income tax returns. Most financial aid awards include a combination of grants, loans, and employment opportunities.
[/quote]
</code></pre>
<p>The thought of one of my children standing at a railing waiting to pick over the leftovers of other people, including strangers (no one can know "everyone" on a campus of 1300+ people) is very unpleasant. Sorry, but it is.</p>
<p>I guess I read the stats differently
I read 43 % of freshman recieve aid- I assume this is freshman for the year 2004-2005?
( the princeton review also cites that on a scale of 60-99 of how satisfied students are with their aid, that Reed rates a 97)
Reed is not need blind they are need aware. From comments made by current students they may be giving more aid to students who need it, but admitting fewer of those students.
Overall they do give more money to students who have applied ED, and to continuing students- as noted they try and meet current students need first, quite commendable IMO after hearing stories of students who were lured to schools by great financial aid packages, only to have grants replaced with loans and workstudy for subsequent years.
The same stats that say 43% of freshmen get aid, also say that freshmen with aid recieve an average of $23,086 in grants, not that bad.
Their regular& priority deadline for aid is 1/15 which is pretty early and I wonder if everyone understands that if you miss the deadline, you go to the end of the line-</p>
<p>Emeraldkity - Reed does NOT guarantee aid to first year students.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Priority is given to first-year students who are admitted as part of the early decision process. Because of our financial commitment to continuing students, * some first-year and transfer students may not be offered institutional financial aid for their first year at Reed*. While the admission process is need blind, the financial aid process for regular decision freshmen and transfers is merit driven: of the admitted students who demonstrate need, those who have the strongest admission applications are most likely to receive institutional financial aid.</p>
<p>Reed meets the full demonstrated institutional need of all students who have attended Reed at least two semesters, who are maintaining satisfactory academic progress (six Reed units annually and a minimum 2.0 grade point average), and who file their applications on time.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Source: Reed Financial Aid Handbook -
<a href="http://web.reed.edu/financialaid/handbook_philosophy.html%5B/url%5D">http://web.reed.edu/financialaid/handbook_philosophy.html</a></p>
<p>My son is one of the students who was admitted to Reed and denied financial aid. We had a letter from Reed specifically saying he was eligible for need-based aid, but that his application was being denied except for the regular Stafford loan. When I asked, the financial aid office told us that he would have qualified for approx. $15,000 of aid. Other private colleges gave award packages ranging from about $12,000 to $22,000. My son even qualified for need-based aid for in-state tuition in the UC system - he was admitted to UC Berkeley with a financial aid package that included a small grant. One college offered a Perkins loan on top of the regular Stafford loan. I think our EFC on the FAFSA was about $12K.</p>
<p>Reed was my son's first choice and he wrote that on his application, but he could not attend without aid. My son was a very strong candidate: National Merit finalist, 4.0 unweighted high school GPA (about 4.3 weighted) - stellar recommendations. He might not have fit Reed's idea of a "priority" candidate for admission -- but he certainly was not a borderline or weak candidate. He was offered significant financial aid at two other private colleges that do not promise aid to all students, including one that is far more selective than Reed was at the time. </p>
<p>The Reed financial aid office was also the most difficult to work with - at the time he had applications out to half a dozen private colleges - and Reed requested documentation related to my income from self-employment that was far more intrusive and beyond anything else any other college requested. My impression was that they were going over every line of my tax returns with a fine-toothed comb. I was required to submit all sorts of extra documentation. It didn't seem like a school that was going to be particularly generous. Keep in mind that meeting "need" on paper is a different thing than reality. </p>
<p>Bottom line: the college does not promise aid to incoming freshmen - I have no idea how many get denied, because the statistics as to the percentage of first years students who get aid does not account for the number of students who do not enroll precisely because they were denied aid. Since Reed's yield is fairly low, there are probably dozens of students each year who fit that category. By Reed's own account, my son qualified for a grant of $15,000 and got -0-. Even if he had received that grant, it would have been one of the weakest financial aid awards he was offered, given Reed's high tuition.</p>
<p>As you know Reed also is well-known for relatively high first-year dropout rate, which means that a significant number students don't make it past that 2-semester hump.</p>
<p>Im sorry that your son didn't get the need that he needed. I didn't realize that they aren't 100% for freshmen, I think it is very confusing to say that they meet 100% of need when they offer institutional aid, that doesn't make clear that they don't offer aid 100% of time when it is needed.</p>
<p>My daughter doesn't have the scores and stats of your son, and possibly her application being several years ago made the difference. We haven't found them to bend over backward for us, but as they were the only private school she applied to, we didn't have anything to compare to.
If I had to do it over again ( and I guess I will in a few years) I will make sure that several skills of comparable assets are in the mix so that we can compare aid packages. </p>
<p>We were lucky I guess that she got a good aid package, and that we were willing to borrow the EFC. We would have had to borrow the EFC in any case for her other schools and Reed seemed to offer more academically.</p>
<p>I don't know if the freshmen retention rate has increased in recent years. Ancedotally all the students in my daughters freshman year dorm are graduating this year, save one who transferred out, one who spent a year abroad and my daughter who is also taking a year off. Perhaps seeing the numbers of her friends who aren't on any aid at all gave me the impression that a larger number than is accurate are well off. It does change the social climate when half your friends need to work during the week as well as breaks and the other half are in Europe or New Zealand. It would for me anyway.
While I do like Reed, I do think they could have been much more supportive of my daughter academically, when they knew she was getting support from meetings with a coach weekly, but then didn't schedule a backup person when he left. They also haven't been helpful to the point of not returning my emails when I ask about her return to Reed. Ironically, I have gotten the most response from the aid office and the least from student services ;(</p>
<p>This is institutional needbased aid per student admitted, based on 2003 Common Data Sets:</p>
<ol>
<li>Mount Holyoke - $12,792</li>
<li>Reed - $12,683</li>
<li>Oberlin - $12,262</li>
<li>Smith - $12,013</li>
<li>Amherst 10,925</li>
<li>Macalester - $10,764</li>
<li>Swarthmore - $10,595</li>
<li>Grinnell - $10,020</li>
<li>Hamilton - $9,795</li>
<li>Harvard - $9,527</li>
<li>MIT - $9,316</li>
<li>Princeton - $9,164</li>
<li>Stanford - $8,660</li>
<li>Bowdoin - $8,649</li>
<li>Williams - $8,560</li>
<li>Yale - $8,370</li>
<li>Dartmouth 8,132</li>
<li>Middlebury - $8,085</li>
<li>Haverford - $8,079</li>
<li>Colby - $7,638</li>
<li>Bates - $7,535</li>
<li>Washington & Lee - $6,279</li>
<li>Northwestern - $6,237</li>
<li>Davidson - $6,160</li>
</ol>
<p>Mind you, there are some colleges here that also offer merit aid, which, if included, would up their institutional aid per student accordingly. It is possible that, on the whole, Reed students tend to be needier than many others on the list, though I haven't seen significant evidence of it.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity wrote:
[quote]
I think it is very confusing to say that they meet 100% of need when they offer institutional aid, that doesn't make clear that they don't offer aid 100% of time when it is needed.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't think that's an accident. You have to dig deep to find the true policy. My guess is that my son was a victim of his own enthusiasm -- with his statement that Reed was his first choice, they probably thought that we were the type of family who would suddenly "find" some other resources (gift from grandparents, 2nd mortgage on our California home, etc.) But they underestimated my son's intelligence -- turns out that my son could do math. And there is a lot of power in the message "we really want you" that came with my son's acceptance to his 2nd choice. </p>
<p>Reed did offer to allow us to make a deposit to hold a spot while my son was on a "waiting list" for financial aid, with the promise that the money could be returned if the aid didn't come through -- and in the meantime he could also make a deposit elsewhere. My guess was that Reed was leveraging aid dollars, offering money to students that it wanted to entice for various reasons - such as URM status, geographic diversity, or whatever their agenda was - and then of course when some of the student who had been offered aid didn't enroll, dollars would be freed up. My son turned them down on that -- he had good aid packages from 2 other schools high on his list. </p>
<p>But I do have other friends whose kids applied to Reed and who got aid awards that were far less than comparable colleges. The "average" numbers basically can be skewed easily if you spread the money among fewer students -- $2 million spread among 150 students is $13.3 K per student; spread those same dollars among 120 students and the average per student is close to $17.7K. The bottom line is that in understanding financial aid, "averages" are meaningless. For any college that uses "institutional methodology" or the CSS Profile, the claim that 100% need is met for students receiving aid is also meaningless, because each college has its own policies as to how to determine "need" - one college may count the home equity and retirement savings in determining need, another may ignore it; colleges will also weigh the obligations of noncustodial parents differently, which leaves a real mess when one or both parents have remarried and step-parent income enters the picture as well. So the same kid can easily be determined to have an EFC of $10K at one college and $20K at another. If the college that determines need to be $10K offers a package that leaves the family paying $12K -- it is failing to meet 100% of need .... whereas the college that is working from a higher EFC somehow looks more generous on paper.</p>
<p>Calmom, I am always impressed by the thoughtfulness of your posts. Where is your son going to college? Just curious...</p>