Reed vs. L&C

Colleges and Universities A-Z Reed College
1

<p>Okay I can't believe I made an account and am posting here, but I seriously need help/advice and current/relevant information from anyone willing to contribute :)</p>

<p>Essentially I'm torn between Reed and L&C</p>

<p>Starting with L&C:
I got basically a full ride based on merit -- so guaranteed aid for the next four years, I'd have about $5,000 in loans each year (counting direct subsidized and Perkins).*</p>

<p>I absolutely 100% want to study abroad (especially seeing as one of my older sisters did and loved it, the other regretted never doing so).*</p>

<p>I've been in the desert for four years and really miss beautiful green places.*</p>

<p>I'd be 'the smartest' -- not trying to be pretentious but they only give out up to 5 of the scholarship I received*</p>

<p>I'm a HUGE slacker/procrastinator (i.e. every college app was submitted date of deadline, and I awkwardly missed some of my instate honors college deadlines thinking I had 1 more day to do everything....)*
But I'd get on pretty easily at L&C, putting in the same amount of work I have in high school (which isn't much... As in I moved over a month ago and still have yet to dig through boxes to find my textbooks, Calc included). </p>

<p>Now for Reed:*
I got about the same amount of money (dolar-wise) here as L&C, but obvs it's more expensive so I think I'd have $10,000 in loans per year. Also, the aid is need-based, so I'm not necessarily garunteed the same amount every year (what happens if my mom miraculously finds a real job!) vs. the merit from L&C.</p>

<p>Despite the whole procrastination thing, I really love academia and plan to ultimately become a professor (grad school is 100% in my future).*</p>

<p>I think I'd fit in relatively well at the school -- I was raised in a tiny white Christian town, but upon moving to a larger city at the start of high school I got really into the tolerance movement, didn't feel guilty for being bi, and apparently can pull off the Professor Trelawney look in daily life. I'm also what you might label a 'stoner' in that I've been smoking for 3 years (since I was a sophomore) and first semester this year I was smoking typically 5 days a week but since Christmas break 2-3 times a day every day o.O I feel like this would be less frowned upon by Reedies than by Lewis&Clark-ers (do they have a name?) but at the same time I'd probably have to cut back in order to succeed at Reed, whereas I could keep up my current copious consumption were I to attend L&C.*</p>

<p>I would NOT be the 'smartest' here, but meeting geniuses could be pretty awesome/inspiring :) or you know... make me feel hopelessly inferior. I think I'd probs be somewhere in the 75th percentile; I've got 'natural intelligence' but am lazy.
[For anyone who cares about this: SAT reading 800 writing 800 math 770; but only 33 on ACT w/ writing (it's possible I fell asleep during the essay...) oh and GPA 4.14 w/ scale of extra .25 for honors, .5 for AP (classes like band and Spanish bring it down a lot).*</p>

<p>I've been stalking a lot of Reedies livejournals (yes livejournal... Blast from the past) and everyone seems to be super stressed and overwhelmed by studying :( Also, apparently GPAs at Reed tend to be SUBSTANTIALLY lower than what the same student would have earned at most other universites (including 'name schools') and Reed's name isn't necessarily enough to counterbalance that. I'm sure I'd fairly easily maintain my high GPA at L&C without having to work, in contrast to working my for lower grades at Reed.*</p>

<p>I have a LOT of schooling ahead of me... I really don't want to burnout in the first 2 years.*</p>

<p>Okay please help!
Obviously I know the academics at Reed are far superior, but there are a lot of other considerations for me. I haven't had the chance to visit (will do so in the next few weeks!) and hopefully that'll help the dilemma.*</p>

<p>To anyone who managed to read this entire post: congratulations on making it through the ramblings of my sleep-deprived consciousness and thanks for taking the time to do so :)*</p>

<p>p.s. anyone in the 'exact' same situation as me, (L&C v Reed) PLEASE message me so we can be frustrated together!*</p>

2

<p>I think I’ve turned into that person who pours out their life story and everyone’s left lost as to their point… oh well, I’m allowed one absurd college rant right?</p>

3

<p>Hey, I’d PM you, but unfortunately my post count isn’t high enough. I’m basically in the exact same boat. I feel like I’d be near the top at L&C (of course I don’t know for sure, but like you I got a great scholarship) looking at their academic averages, and I know Reed would be more challenging. I’ve visited both and both campuses are quite nice. I feel like I should take Reed because I really enjoy a challenge (can’t say I’m “lazy”, but I do have natural intelligence like you) and I feel like I’d fit in well there based on what I’ve read, but at the same time I felt more “comfortable” on the L&C campus, which I’ve been on twice now. So I’m really torn. I’m not sure if this is actually something worth worrying about, but I worry that if I wanted to go to a good grad school (pretty much 100% for me too) my Reed GPA wouldn’t help me, and that the Reed stigma (which I’m not sure if it’s really still there?) would keep them from understanding how rigorous it is, thus a not perfect GPA, but still a great education.</p>

<p>Sorry, I kinda ranted a bit too. I was just glad to see someone else I the exact same boat. Hope I didn’t sound cocky or anything…</p>

4

<p>@Parity and Heartbooks. I’m a Reed grad from the previous millenium. Not going to compare L&C with Reed. But I want to put to rest your concerns about GPA’s. Have you looked at the statistics on the Reed admissions website that show the large percentage of Reedies who go on to graduate work? </p>

<p>Yes, Reed’s grades are tougher than average. But No, this will make no difference if you want to go on to doctoral studies (assuming, of course, that you have good grades overall, even if not perfect). I succeeded in graduate admissions with a GPA that was about 3.4. I was admitted to these law schools: Stanford, Berkeley, Chicago. I was admitted to these doctoral programs: Princeton, Wisconsin. To every grad school I applied to. How could that happen? Because Reed’s strong academic reputation, the research and writing skills and experience you get there, the chance to do independent research (best represented by your thesis) – these things are well known to graduate programs. Besides, you do have to take standardized tests (GRE’s, LSAT’s, etc.), and these count at least as much as grades in graduate admissions. In the case of doctoral programs, your ability to convey your career goals and your fit to the school’s progams is as important as your GPA and test scores.</p>

<p>So in choosing between these schools, forget about your GPA. You should be choosing the schools for their academic programs and the intellectual and social climate that you most prefer. But if you choose Reed, you won’t be able to be a slacker. Well, I knew a couple of true geniuses who were able to do prodigious research and writing in a lot less time than mere mortals. But the vast majority of your classmates will be working along on things as you do, trying to meet deadlines (with common due dates for papers that kind of get everybody in synch in the first year). But the opportunity to use your creative imagination, both in your coursework and other activities is very special at Reed.</p>

5

<p>Lololol you thinking you’ll be the 75th percentile for Reed. Not a chance. It makes you humble.</p>

6

<p>mackinaw is right on the money. Here’s my $0.02.</p>

<p>I applied to Reed and L&C. I went to Reed and am admittedly biased towards it. I have friends at both. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Cost.
Lewis and Clark’s yearly tuition is $41,568. If you include fees and basic room and board, it’s $54,321.
Reed’s yearly tuition is $44,200. If you include fees and R&B, it’s $55,920.
If you are getting the same amount of financial aid/ scholarships/ grants at both schools, the cost is pretty much equal. Also I’ve found Reed’s FA to be more comprehensive; they factor in off-campus living expenses into total cost once you move out of the dorms, your regular financial aid applies to study abroad (in other words, you don’t pay extra), they try to cap total loan debt at $16K unless you choose to take out more, and they promise to meet 100% of your demonstrated need, which L&C definitely does not (though hopefully that would not be an issue if you have a full-ride scholarship).
A merit scholarship is a nice thing to list on a resume, though…</p></li>
<li><p>Study Abroad.
L&C has a more robust SA program and advertises it better/ encourages students to do it more than Reed does. However, you can certainly study abroad while at Reed and they offer some really cool programs and collaborations with other institutions. </p></li>
<li><p>Beautiful green places.
Both Reed and L&C have very green, verdant, and beautiful campuses. </p></li>
<li><p>Pot.
Is smoked liberally at both schools. But yeah, maybe you’ll grow out of it…</p></li>
<li><p>The smartest in the school/ effort/ going into academia.
Basically it seems like you think Reed would challenge you (perhaps too much? but if you got in, then you can probably handle it) and L&C would be more of the same or even ‘easy’ for you. While you might be underestimating college-level academics, I wouldn’t disagree that Reed is harder than L&C. For someone who wants to go into academia, I’m surprised that this is even a question. Wouldn’t you want to undertake academic challenges and get the best education you can? I guess there is something to be said for being a big fish in a small pond (more accolades), but sometimes that can also induce apathy and habitual half-assedness. It seems like lazy but brilliant people either go one of two ways at Reed: they try to get away with their same tricks/ lack of effort and struggle a lot, or they realize they have never really been challenged, rise to meet that challenge, and flourish.<br>
Re: procrastination, that is going to screw you over at any school, sorry. Some people learn better study habits, some don’t, those are probably the people stressing out on livejournal. :)</p></li>
<li><p>Grad school.
Reed is the hands-down winner here. They are one of the top 5 producers of PhDs in the country and alumni go on to attend top grad programs. A degree from Reed is well-respected in academic circles and it doesn’t seem like a slightly lower GPA negatively impacts grad school admissions (since they know Reed and understand). I don’t think Reed is as well-known in the work world (outside of the PNW), so if you were planning to go straight into the workforce that might be a slightly different story; also Reed is liberal arts to the core and very non-vocational. I disagree that Reedies have substantially lower GPAs, the average is a 3.2, and I bet it’s about -0.5 difference…
I have no idea what the outcomes are for L&C grads, but I read that it was rated as having one of the worst ROIs in the country (google 20 Colleges Not Worth Their Tuition In 2012 – link to article is blocked) Sorry to any L&C readers, I do respect your school, and maybe these dumb lists do not show the whole picture. Plus you wouldn’t be paying any tuition so your personal ROI wouldn’t be so bad.
But basically, my inclination is that a B average from Reed will carry more weight with grad admissions than an A- average at L&C. Plus hopefully Reed’s rigor would also translate into higher GRE scores, and writing a substantial thesis also looks great to grad schools.
<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/registrar/form_downloads/grades.pdf[/url]”>http://www.reed.edu/registrar/form_downloads/grades.pdf&lt;/a&gt; </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Parting thoughts: VISIT, VISIT, VISIT. Maybe you’ll fall in love with the culture of one but not the other. Maybe one has a really cool professor in exactly what you want to study. Maybe one feels more like home. Maybe one will challenge your assumptions. Maybe one will be the super obvious choice. Maybe not. But if you’re committing to spending the next 4 years of your life there, you might as well check it out, right?</p>

7

<p>SHolmies - thank you so much for the comprehensive response. I do find the prospect of Reed rather daunting, especially after taking it relatively easy this year (only 4 APs instead of 6 like last year, allowing myself a B in Calc, not consistently practicing my instruments, etc). Essentially I think the question is whether I would “rise to meet the challenge” as you say, and I wish I had enough faith in myself to confidently promise I could – alas my response is much more tentative.
I will definitely keep your words in mind when I visit in the next few weeks.
Oh also! Oberlin and Bard are looking like they might be financially viable as well, and maybe a good middle ground of harder academics yet still not quite as rigorous as Reed.</p>

8

<p>Additionally, paying for college is a huge concern, seeing as my parents aren’t supporting me at all (one because she can’t, the other because he won’t). I’m really worried about the possibility of Reed not matching their aid in the future. This wouldn’t be as significant a problem at Oberlin, Bard, or L&C because the aid is merit-based.*
Does anyone know if you can get a guarantee from the college that they’ll at least match their previous year’s offer? I’ll even have two little sisters entering college while I’m still attending undergrad, which should theoretically mean more money for me :)</p>

9

<p>^ Reedies must submit new FAFSA/PROFILE forms every year (I think this is true at most schools). If the EFC goes up or down, the aid award will likely go down or up, respectively (I’ve heard–not from Reed–the factor of forty cents aid change per dollar of income change). Because Reed meets full need, students’ ability to attend should thus not be affected.</p>

<p>Because schools want their retention statistics to be as high as possible, they’ll try hard to keep you in school once you’re there.</p>

10

<p>reed is need-aware - not need-blind. absolutely sure of this</p>

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<p>^ True, but this should be irrelevant to applicants; it doesn’t affect the quality or desirability of a school, but rather only the chance of admittance, and then only for a few on the cusp. After admittance, Reed meets full need for all four years.</p>

12

<p>Heartbrooks26-- I’d like to second everything that SHolmies had to say, especially by underlining that Reed is hands-down the winner for graduate work afterwards. If you’re dreaming of a career in academia, there’s no way in hell you’ll get away with slacking. The percentages of people who go on to graduate schools with dreams of becoming professors and then actually succeed…are tiny. You have to be really, really good. And to be really, really good, there is no sitting on your laurels. You have to work for it, and that means not slacking off and not procrastinating. You’re going to have to learn that sometime and somewhere, and putting off that kind of growth for grad school isn’t going to cut it.</p>

13

<p>Heartbrooks26–We visited both colleges earlier this month. L&C was like “it is in the area so we might as well drop by”, D ended up loving L&C too! Academically, Reed is a much better fit. </p>

<p>By chance, we met several L&C students in downtown Portland, they all gave D contact info and treated us warmly. While waiting for D at Reed, one of the Reedie, just walked over and took our newspaper at our lunch table without saying a word. What was up with that? If only she could take classes at Reed and stay at L&C, it would be perfect for us. </p>

<p>Please let us know your final decision. We might be in the same boat next year.</p>

<p>Good Luck.</p>

14

<p>redgirl - they’re need-blind for 90% of their applicants, ability to pay will only make a difference if you’re on the cusp. Not that it matters, as people have said.</p>

15

<p>worrytoomuch–I don’t think you should take one student’s rude gesture as indicative of an entire school’s worth, particularly considering the gesture in question. Most of the tables have copies of the NYT on them from which the crossword has been poached, so I’ve taken newspapers from tables myself, especially if it appears they are not being read. I do ask, so that was a slight on the part of the Reedie who interacted with you, but this seems like such a minor quibble.</p>

<p>Especially because Reed seems to be “a much better fit” academically. Isn’t the number one priority for college the quality of the education?</p>