<p>Odyssey, my son followed his own drummer too. He got Bs in English every year until this fall when he took regular instead of honors English. Of course he had great grades and great scores, and he did many things that looked good on an application, but they were all things he wanted to do. He ended up getting into Harvard, but is turning them down for a better fit at Carnegie Mellon.</p>
<p>As for the working class kids, I agree that all too often they are scared to apply to HYP etc. It's too bad because they provide a much needed perspective. One of my undergrad friends was from a dairy farm in Wisconsin. She was the first person ever in her high school to go out of state to college.</p>
<p>Hi, this is my first posting. The messages I have so far read have been extremely helpful in the sense that they tell me that the stress we have been through for a whole year is not unique to us. Thank you for your honesty.</p>
<p>Can anyone advise me on the best way to have our child be considered from the 3 schools on which she has been waitlisted (any of which she would accept over the school that accepted her).? And can anyone tell me if the financial aid is less generous for waiting list applicants? </p>
<p>"These kids who dont get into Harvard spend summers on schooners in Chesapeake Bay studying marine biology, building homes for the poor in Central America, touring Europe with all-star orchestras.</p>
<p>Summers, I dug trenches for my local sewer department during the day, and sold hot dogs at Fenway Park at night."</p>
<p>Personally, I'd favor the author's summer experiences. That's probably just me though.</p>
<p>"So Harvard, if you are looking for bright working class/poor native kids, come on down to West Virginia and convince these kids to apply!</p>
<p>Harvard admissions offices travel all over the country including to W. Va. to try to get applications from first generation, low income college students. However, if caring relatives like you couldn't get your nephew to apply, how could Harvard admissions officers get him to apply? What you described is an excellent example of why it's so hard to get socioeconmically economically diverse classes in places like Ivies.</p>
<p>Incidentally, Henry Louis "Skip" Gates, the Yale grad who heads Harvard's Afro American studies department is African American and from West Virginia. He also was from a small town, has a club foot, and may have been first gen college. He is one of the most gregarious people whom one would ever want to meet, and I think that his confidence and gregariousness -- along with his obvious intellect -- are what gave him the courage to apply to an Ivy.</p>
<p>Most people -- low income or not low income, from professional or uneducated backgrounds -- just don't have that kind of moxie. One either has that kind of courage or doesn't. Harvard admissions officers can't pour it into a person who's scared of moving beyond what they think is their place in life.</p>
<p>Yes, a few kids from hard-working families do squeak into the Ivies. I know of one student who's a top runner at her hs, had a couple of good interviews w/the coach, and was given a partial scholarship. (The student's academic performance was very good, but scores were not stellar...) Now, how the family's going to scrape up the rest of the $$, I don't know. Maybe a home equity loan or cash some bonds if they have any..They'll have to come up with about $20,000yr for 4 yrs, but I guess that's not a bad cost for a Ivy league education....</p>
<p>And even a person with "moxie" from a working-class background may find the Ivies too high-powered. It's one thing to be the val and smartest person in your small county school and want to be around other bright kids, it's another to suddenly be in a cohort of kids who are not only smart, confident, and well-spoken, they may have won an Int'l violin competition, already published a novel, and/or traveled extensively in foreign countries. </p>
<p>If I recall correctly, Harvard, at the same time it announced that it was getting rid of EA, stated that it is planning to increase its outreach efforts to encourage more applications from lower income students. It will be interesting to see what other efforts Harvard will make.</p>
<p>What efforts are they making? Now that I think about it, they did stop by our school recently, which is a low income, inner city type of school. However, most people have the mentality that they won't get in anyway. I dont blame them, with Harvard's 9% acceptance rate. The one person who is convinced she will get in, probably won't. (She's Asian with low test scores, upper middle class family)</p>
<p>Mommusic, you made a very good point which is important for students and parents to remember. You have to feel comfortabe socially as well as academically. It's one thing to be accepted to an Ivy; it's another issue to live day in and day out with students who have had many more opportunities and advantages.</p>
<p>I liked the article a lot but didn't think it was great. </p>
<p>The two parts I like the best were the comparisons of admissions years ago to now and the reaction to the terrific young women and men who are applying and how 90+% of them would be terrific kids to accept. </p>
<p>There were 2 points I didn't like. First, the article reinforced an applicant has to have done some unworldly great thing to get into Harvard ... the kids accepted here are certainly great applicants but they are typical amazing high school kids (not nationally ranked types) ... passion for music can get you in even if you haven't played Carnigie Hall yet. Second, I really disliked the motivation of the writer for interviewing ... I interview for 2 reasons first I LOVE my school and this is one small way to pay Cornell back ... and two I love helping kids and I hopefully provide an engaged and honest interviwer for the students and parents.</p>
<p>I honestly don't know why so many kids are literally obsess with going to Harvard or any Ivy League. So many of them get depress if they don't. It's almost as if their self worth is greatly dependent on what kind of ivy school or top ten college they get into. For me that is a sad way to live.</p>
<p>My older sister studied at Columbia and now is pushing my niece to get into an IVY league like she did. I love my niece , but I hate the fact that she tends to look down on people who aren't like her mother or her.</p>
<p>My sons Harvard interview was a disgrace. He reports that she, the interviewer, berated him for not applying to Columbia. What business is it of hers. Also, to break the ice he asked her if she were related to a student at our town's other high school. Apparently she replyed that she was, but added with sarcasm that they don't speak to that side of the family. Sheer disgrace.</p>
<p>As expected, our son did not get in. He is valedictorian with excellent EC's and 13 AP's. Surprise, surprise, an athlete from his school was accepted/recruited. I know this happens all the time, but it amazes me still. This isn't big 10 or ACC, etc conference. Who watches ivy league ball except the parents and coaches. It's great they have talent but spots for our intelligent, academically motivated and very involved children don't get the same consideration.</p>
<p>Fortunately,my son did not have Harvard as his first choice. Got into first choice school but opted for a full ride to a lesser tier school (his choice) that is offering him a lot and is giving him the recognition he believes he deserves.</p>
<p>My words of wisdom to my children has always been, "You can go anywhere and be anything." Not attending Harvard will not affect his capacity to learn, and choose the degree he desires.</p>
<p>Good luck to all, whether at Harvard or elsewhere.</p>
<p>(can't believe I have to do this again in 2 years. Different kid different schools, but I hear that is when we will reach the peak of most grads so the competition for spots at all schools will just continue to increase.)</p>
<p>Crazed- your son sounds like a mature good kid. I tell my niece that even if she doesn't get into an IVY league school it's not the end of the world,and I'm sure there are lesser tier schools that are willing to give her an amazing college experience. I believe the student makes the school, not the other way around, although I might be in the minority here.</p>
<p>My D got into Yale. I used to ask her why she had to stay up after midnight studying. Couldn't she get some rest? What was so importany about getting into a top school? After all, I got a great education from UCSB and we're doing just fine in Santa Barbara. I worried as she pushed herself. Would it kill you to get a "B"? She was a fair volleyball player. Nothing special but she ended up team captain...and she didn't even start. She had finished all the Spanish available to her as a Jr. I suggested that we send her to Spain over the summer to at least try to learn to speak the language. She made a sour face and didn't answer. Two weeks later she came home excited about a program called Amigos de Las Americas. She would spend the summer in an isolated poor community in Mexico teaching health to children with one other volunteer. She would be visited once a week by a supervisor to insure her well being (shudder). She is passionate about social justice, as so many of these great kids are. So she started a club called "Students Talking About Respect" and oversaw the $5k grant she applied for and secured. She started Peace Week and a religious tolerance forum. I found out about the last two just recently when she asked me to proof her resume for a publishing internship this summer (following her frosh year at Yale...we'll never see her!). Her SAT's were 2250. Straight A's always, AP's, robotics class . She worked two jobs at once while both her mom and I asked her to just slow down. She knew she needed the money for private school Just volumes of self generated envolvement. She visited most the Ivies but just resonated with the Yale kids. She got full ride offers at Berkeley, UCSB and was encouraged to apply for one at USC. Brown, Penn and Tufts rejected her. But Yale said yes. How does this happen? Not from legacy. Mom and dad are first generation State school kids. Not from wealth or social status. She's just another white kid from California. But she got in. I asked her how she thinks she got in when so many others didn't. She says the right Admission Officer read her application who shared her passion for Latin America. She says Yale is looking for a certain type of kid and that Yale kids are truly different from the kids at other schools. Maybe so. It's just that she fits so perfectly there. She is, at last, surrounded by her true peers. She "fits". And so do the other kids. I think you have to trust the folks at the schools your children are applying to. Trust them to be able to somehow sort out who fits as they build these incredibly dynamic student classes. </p>
<p>So I would say to Nightingale, don't lose heart. Believe in your child and trust the Admission staff to look at him/her as an individual. My D is proof that unconnected kids have a chance at the elite schools even without excessive support.</p>
<p>That was a good article. The most important thing that I came away with was the fact that these kids will turn out to be great people, whether they got into Harvard or not.</p>