Not @DunBoyer, but advising appears to be hit or miss. You get two advisors, one general, and one in your area of interest. DD gets regular group emails from the area-of-interest guy, but she hasn’t tried to get any personal attention yet, so can’t speak to that one. With regard to the general one, friendly, but has not been useful for advising; DD and I know a lot more than he does. YMMV.
Advising was hit-or-miss last year for my D. It’s required that you visit your academic advisor once a quarter between weeks 4 and 7; only then are you cleared to register for next quarter. D’s initial academic advisor was helpful but either quit or was removed right before D’s appointment in the spring. She ended up getting re-assigned to someone she liked a lot better but it almost messed up her ability to register for fall.
Last year’s O-week consisted of group advisee meetings rather than one-on-one. Beyond that, the personal meetings during O-Week were more for “special cases” (such as appealing a placement decision). Perhaps it’s different this year. In years prior to last, there were one-on-one sessions and your advisor registered you at that time for your courses, but last summer all that was done online and special questions were sent over to “summer advising” (who were quite prompt with answers in my daughter’s case). @milee30 - your DC can always drop a course if things get too crazy. But I’d be a bit skeptical that with 1800+ students this year the O-Week advising is somehow going to be more personal than it was last. Please report back once the year is underway for the benefit of those who have up-and-coming kids thinking of UChicago! Would love to know how well they are adjusting to these ever-increasing class sizes.
D also met with her major advisor last spring to get an idea of her courses for the following year. Because she had only just declared her major and was still heavily immersed in fulfilling the Core, she didn’t feel there was a need to meet before that time. YMMV as some majors require a lot more pre-planning than others.
Finally, each student is assigned a career advisor and they encourage you to stop in early on. D’s helped with resume review, cover letter, etc. Most of the internships available through Career Advising are via an online tool (forget the name).
Hm, if advising is hit or miss is there a preferred way to get some targeted advice from someone at the college? He’s planning to be a math major, does anyone have a recommendation on a good person familiar with that department and also the relative course load of the various Core courses?
@milee30 has your son checked out the college catalog for the math major and/or department website?
https://math.uchicago.edu/
http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/mathematics/
If he has specific questions beyond the information provided in those, he might be able to contact the math undergraduate directors: https://math.uchicago.edu/undergraduate/contacts/
Regarding course load for first years, it can really be all over the map as students are arriving with differential preparation, skill sets and study habits. The advice last year was to register for four in the autumn unless you had a specific commitment like fall sport etc., and then drop by 4th week if need be. D has told me that most of the kids she knew stuck it out with four, but we’ve also known several who started with three, especially if they were going to be taking a heavy (major) STEM load or were taking 160’s Calc. and/or honors something else.
Students must graduate with a total of 4200 credits (42 courses), 3800 of which must be taken at UChicago (you are allowed to transfer in up to 400 credits - or four courses - from AP/IB, etc.). So, approximately half of his total course load will need to consist of four courses in a quarter, and the other half won’t. Whether you begin with three and ramp it up in the winter, or begin off the bat with four, won’t really matter over the longer term.
Assuming a heavy STEM load, it’s perfectly reasonable to spread out the Hum/Sosc./Civ., especially since they eat up eight course slots (Math/Phsc/Bio, in contrast, eat up six). Simply put, if the major is heavily sequential and course-specific, then it’s a bit more difficult to fit 100% of non STEM Core into the first two years. Therefore, it’s not unusual to see a bunch of 2nd years in Sosc. and a bunch of 3rd years in Civ. Tell him to get his Core Art out of the way - apparently that’s super difficult to fulfill beyond 2nd year. But Civ - last I checked there are still LOTS of open Civ sequences so unless he has his heart set on something like Western Civ with only a single section that fills up quick, he can get away with putting it off till third year and choosing then.
He should run any advice like this past his advisor(s), of course.
Yes, he checked the course catalog. The issue is more of what combination of courses is a reasonable workload and which courses although he placed into and was invited into them will be not just a stretch but a too heavy course load when combined with other things.
I’ll mention the Core Art issue. Maybe that would be a way for him to feel like he was still making progress on the Core.
@milee30 - one more thing: last summer my D and I created a spreadsheet with a prospective plan of study for her. Given that she was unsure of whether to double major, or major/minor and then also unsure of whether to do Study Abroad, I think we ended up with something like four different iterations! It was a lot of work but boy - did it help her figure out up front how much flexibility she had to get her Core done. She has a ton more perspective now which enabled her to toss out Plans 1 - 3 and focus just on Plan 4. There’s still plenty of room to tweak as various possibilities open up. Personally, I felt a tad overwhelmed with all the Core requirements so getting everything on a spreadsheet helped me as well!
@milee30 I think my daughter would tell your son that if he can get into a Core Art class, jump on it! She has tried for 2 years to get into one, and was willing to take anything. The algorithms were not working for her. She was getting a little concerned/frustrated, but during the last add/drop, not only did she get into one, she got one she’s really excited about.
@milee30 Historically the Math Department has been great at advising kids – and not just math majors – about how to get the most out of the math curriculum. While they seem to have adopted a more bureaucratic advising model, it’s still certainly worth a shot to contact the people they suggest you contact, John Boller or Jitka Stehnova. (As @JBStillFlying suggested.) That’s what they are there for.
@BrianBoiler You and/or your son are dead wrong to think that an economics major translates into a more lucrative job than a math major, or a public policy major, or a philosophy major. It’s true that being an economics major may signal that you are interested in a lucrative job and you are trying to prepare yourself for it, but very little of what has historically been taught to Chicago economics majors has real practical relevance to the things 21-year-olds are hired to do in the world of high-paying jobs. (The same may not be true of the new “Business Economics” major, granted.) There are plenty of other ways to send those signals, however, and they work perfectly well. Friends of one of my kids were hired by BCG out of college – that’s a very high-paying job, in the case of one of them three years of it did pay for law school – and they were a public policy/sociology double major and a history major. Major is not destiny.
Fundamentally, there is a finite set of skills that employers value in new college graduates who don’t have specific professional training (e.g., nurses, engineers, lighting techs). I think it’s math skills, other critical thinking/analytic skills, computer fluency, writing and research ability. Economics is a fine way to show that you have most or all of those, but it isn’t anything like the only way or even the best way. Philosophy with some serious math would be super.
@JBStillFlying - LOVE the spreadsheet idea! Just wish I better knew how to read the major requirements as far as the core goes - do you need different core depending on the major? My son is looking at major in the new Business Econ, then would love to double major in Statistics or Math. There is both a BA and BS Stats major - would it be easier to do the BA Statistics major since the Business Econ is a BA? I’m assuming there will be different core requirements. He’s not interested (at this time) in study abroad, and would consider a summer quarter at some point if needed…
I have a new project…after we get house assignments tomorrow and can finally start serious dorm shopping;)
Off to print out course major/minor info!
My academic advising experience has been pretty good. I have gone to my adviser with a few unusual situations, including (but not limited to) instances of the following:
- Considered a triple major for a hot second
- Seriously considered taking a quarter off for a political job
- Walked out of an exam convinced I had flunked Calc 152 (I hadn't, but went through a few days' panic anyway).
- The registration algorithm messed up and didn't give me any classes (including some that clearly had open spots)
- Thought about writing two B.A. theses (outcome TBD)
She took all of the above in stride.
Most of the time, pre-registration chats are more mundane. If I’m thinking of putting a class off till next year, or taking one earlier than is typical, she might share her thoughts on whether that’s feasible - given the logistical, administrative, or academic effects of a particular sequencing of courses. Often, I’ll have my pick of a few courses, and she’ll know what other advisees thought of a class or professor. She has a grasp of the inside baseball for different departments - which requirements are a formality, which ones are set in stone, who to contact with a question, etc. And she’s usually got an interesting anecdote or two on tap.
This may not be everyone’s experience - it’s very possible I lucked out being assigned to the adviser I got. And I haven’t been through any major academic issues or life-disrupting events, so I can’t say for sure how well advising would handle that stuff.
Where people I know have had problems with college advising, it’s usually because of mandatory or university-wide policies. In some situations, the college requires that students take a leave of absence. It might be a good idea for some students. For others, it cuts them off from the only support network they have - sometimes for a year or more - and exacerbates whatever issue led to the leave of absence in the first place.
The registration system, and some related departmental policies, can be annoying, but advisers don’t set those rules - they just help us navigate them.
O-week advising included the group session others have mentioned above, as well as a one-on-one meeting to register for classes (I gather this is no longer the case, since registration is now online).
Finally, as far as I can tell, academic advisers aren’t assigned to a specific major or area, but I haven’t really looked into it. I have only had one academic adviser in my time at the college. Maybe the second adviser @Lea111 mentions is on the career advancement side, or maybe it just varies by department.
Career advising, in my experience, isn’t as helpful. They’re always happy to do resume review, interviewing practice, etc, but aren’t subject matter experts. Their training is more administrative than field-specific. The career advisers I’ve dealt with are mostly there to help students execute a plan - not guide them as they formulate one. Career advancement as a whole - including the various internship and fellowship programs - is a great resource, but the advising doesn’t really stand out in a good or bad way.
I second everything people have said above about e-mailing department heads. From what I’ve heard, the math department is pretty helpful.
That’s my $0.02. Your mileage may vary.
"Just wish I better knew how to read the major requirements as far as the core goes - do you need different core depending on the major? "
Everyone has the same Core requirements. These can only be (partially) satisfied via examination (primarily for Math or Science - see the following link for more detail: http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/examinationcreditandtransfercredit/)
Other than that limited exception, everyone’s on the hook to satisfying the requirements. The following link provides a lot more detail: http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/thecurriculum/
In a nutshell, you must take 1500 credits (15 courses) as follows:
600 credits (6 courses) of Hum, Art and Civ consisting of at least 2 Hum, 2 Civ, and 1 Art;
600 credits (6 courses) of Math, Physical Science and Bio. Science consisting of at least 2 each of Phy sci. and Bio and 1 of Math;
300 credits (3 courses) of Sosc.
All courses must follow the specified approved sequence unless specified; Civ might have a few sequences where order isn’t required but Hum and Sosc. will have a strict order on pretty much any sequence chosen. Same with math or science, although that’s a more obvious rule for those subjects.
In addition, you must take 300 credits (3 courses) of a foreign language; it’s possible to place out of a portion or all of that requirement. Details are provided when you scroll down on the curriculum page of the College Catalog.
The College strongly recommends that you complete the Core within the first two years; however, it’s not unusual to see 3rd years in a Civ. sequence and sometimes that’s simply not avoidable. Hum is required during first year, and Sosc. should be completed by end of 2nd. And I’ve heard it’s very hard to get into a core Art course after 2nd year. My D was able to get hers over with in the spring of 1st year after completing her Hum. Most Math and Science can be knocked off as pre-reqs for the major or, if not doing STEM/pre-med/Econ, can just be taken sometime during the first two years. Guessing that 99.9% of kids planning Calc. take it during first year.
The Core requirements are identical regardless of major, but a major may determine how you meet the Core requirements. I.e., if you major in any lab science, you won’t be taking the special Core science courses; you will be meeting the Core science requirements by taking the basic introductory lab courses you need for your major. But English majors can meet the Core requirements that way, too, especially if they are pre-med English majors. STEM majors generally require more math than the Core, but anyone can take more math than the Core.
It helps to think of the Core this way: There are 9 quarter-courses you have to take that are special Core courses, the core of the Core. 3 Sosc; at least 2 Hum, at least 2 Civ, at least 1 Art, and 1 more from those three. You can’t substitute non-Core courses for any of those. Then there are 6 math/science quarter-courses: at least 2 Biological Science, at least 2 Physical Science, at least 1 math, and 1 more from those three (but almost always a second math, which is required if you are taking calculus to meet the requirement, as well as being required for a whole bunch of majors). There are special Core options for meeting the Bio and PhySci requirements (some of them a bit fluffy), but as noted above science majors and lots of non-science majors will satisfy the Core by taking intro Bio and Chemistry and/or Physics. There are no special Core math courses, so you have to take standard math course(s) for that requirement, but you can also place out of it by testing. Finally, you have to take (or place out of) one full year of foreign language, which would be a standard course. (With math or foreign language, you can place out of some but not all of the requirement and satisfy the requirement by taking however many quarters you didn’t place out of.) Some humanities majors require more than one year of a foreign language.
At most, the Core is 18 units, which would be five quarters if you planned to take the minimum number of courses to graduate. But lots of people place out of a few of those quarters, so it’s often more like four quarters. Science majors and pre-meds satisfy the math/science portion of the Core without thinking about it much, so for them the Core feels like the 9 core-Core courses plus the language requirement – effectively, three quarters.
“My son is looking at major in the new Business Econ, then would love to double major in Statistics or Math. There is both a BA and BS Stats major - would it be easier to do the BA Statistics major since the Business Econ is a BA?”
- That's a great question that he can explore once he arrives on campus or even now by perusing the College Catalog to understand the difference. The BS is going to be a more 'mathy' program of study than the BA. Stats and Econ. will have some overlap and they allow you to use the same course to fulfill both majors.
“I’m assuming there will be different core requirements.”
- Probably different pre-reqs but perhaps not. If he's fulfilling his Math pre-req for Bus. Econ. with a level of calculus that's accepted as a pre-req. for stats, he'll be fine. And all calculus sequences satisfy the Math core.
Are everyone’s classes from preregistration already completed and set? I understand that the school is saying that the final results will be around 9/11, but my S’s classes has been showing that he is enrolled in 2 classes that he did not register for.
As in, classes he didn’t request anywhere in his ranking of courses? That seems very weird.
My.uchicago says the following:
So if something really strange is afoot, this is probably a good time to e-mail his adviser.
Yes @DunBoyer, as in classes he didn’t request anywhere in any ranking of courses. We called his advisor a couple of times, but got voicemail, so we left a couple of messages.
@uocparent my DD has same situation. She has only 3 courses, and one is calculus which she did not pre-register for in August. Not sure if she reached out yet, but I think she needs to do so.
My S’s adviser was super and able to get his classes changed. I think the advisers also work on scheduling concerns during OWeek.
^They should. Last year those personal meetings were exactly for the types of issues mentioned here - messed up schedules and so forth. IIRC correctly there was a mandatory group meeting with the advisor early in the week and individual meetings would follow up after that throughout O-Week. Not all scheduling issues require an individual meeting - sometimes they are best handled via Add/Drop (you prefer another section, another prof, want to try for something that just opened up, etc.). But if the schedule suffers from a lack of coherence, that suggests the counselor should be involved to resolve it prior to first day of classes.
My son is going to talk to his advisor about switching out of one of his courses - HUM, SOSC or CIV since it sounds like that would be a lot for his first quarter (also in Calc). Where can he see what courses are still open? I have a feeling the Econ course he wanted is probably full…not sure what he would replace one of the core courses with.