Agree with finance assessment, however if you look at OPs FA offer, it doesn’t even include FAFSA loans (get it, it is still a loan), that can be used as backup in case IL doesn’t provide MAP grant in future and OP still be a Dr as long as academics requirements are met, as for OP medicine is goal. I am neither a opponent nor a proponent of bird-in-hand theory, its always case by case basis. I had argued a bird without wings is a bad choice on BS/MD threads.
@Sue22 there are variety of reasons for gap years. People take gap year(s) to repair GPA to boost ECs to get into that exclusive T5-T10 med schools. Bowdoin is not an exception to those reasons, exception is 15% vs national average ~33% direct admits, OP is in unique position and background, should only gamble the BS/MD golden ticket if he affords to loose, which I doubt OP can.
I may change my view, if Bowdoin numbers are 55%, well above national average ~33%.
Not that it is up to me, but I vote each of us makes our point, once, and then move on. This thread has devolved into what reads like debate, to me, and I don’t like it. Make your point so HKim can consider it, and then leave it up to him.
To get back to the topic at hand, there are three issues 1° commuting 2° finances 3° certainty of success.
On counts 1&2, the LACS come out on top.
Bowdoin, W&L, Macalester, Grinnell are all residential, cover more, and are very stable financially.
Unfortunately no such thing can be said about the Illinois system of higher education or the State’s budget.
On count 3, part of the divide is that some of us here have followed HKim for 2 years now and thus are certain he’ll make it to med school if that’s where he decides to go, whereas some of us here think GPPA is certain regardless of who HKim is/does so Bowdoin or another LAC is a comparative risk.
So for us who see HKim as succeeeding regardless of college&program, the idea of wasting time on a commute and taking a less comprehensive package that basically only covers tuition (with funds that may for some run out) feels much riskier than the LACs, especially since some (like Bowdoin) offer something like GPPA too alongside a much better experience and more opportunities.
I suppose that people who feel the med school application process is riskier feel that giving up free tuition/fees/room/board/health insurance/miscellaneous is worth it to guarantee admission to med school down the line, or that since HKim has managed housing/food insecurity for years he can take it for a few more years knowing that 7 years from now he’ll be making money in an environment he knows.
I must say that people thinking Bowdoin may not prepare well for med school is mind-boggling; the only explanation I can find is perhaps lack of knowledge (which can make sense in some states)? Those are the colleges many scions of the “famous” families who can go about anywhere choose to go precisely because they offer a fantastic springboard for any professional career they want.
However if OP is worried about Bowdoin, there’s still Macalester (urban and closest to Chicago), Grinnell (one of the top endowment per students in the country and superb for science), and of course W&L (with the Johnson scholarship).
Anyway, I think material stability guaranteed for 4 years+no wasted time >>> GPPA because I have no doubt HKim will succeed without needing GPPA and so is giving up a lot for something that isn’t needed. 
← my vote. 
“Any college with an 87% acceptance rate to med school would be foolish NOT to publish that info.”
Sure, but you have to dig into those numbers regardless of whether it’s a LAC or not. The Vanderbilt data gives one more level of detail, but again it would be great if universities gave an idea of how many kids started out as pre-meds. Without that number it’s hard to know how competitive or supportive a college is.
Taking Vanderbilt, they had 161 get in out of 190, what we don’t know is how many of those came from how many classes. If 100 came from one class, and Vanderbilt has 1650 class size, that doesn’t look as good. A reasonable assumption is that 20% of a class is pre-med, so if you have 330 premeds, then looks like 230 were weeded out.
Back to Bowdoin, if 15% of their class were pre-med, that’s 60, with an 87% admit rate and 7 kids getting in over a couple of classes, if we assume say 5 kids from one class, then basically 6 applied, meaning the 60 were weeded out to 6.
“If a school keeps less qualified students at bay from applying to med school, I say good.”
Which is exactly what Bowdoin and Vanderbilt are doing. Nothing wrong with that either. I’ve mentioned before that my dr went to Berkeley undergrad and said the pre-med went from about 1800 to 600, and I thought if you got through that and med school, you’re probably ok.
My vote is GPPA.
We all should just vote at this point as enough being discussed/debated and OP still seeking more advice from SDN (no pun intended).
Do liberal arts schools like Bowdoin really “weed” kids out of premed? Meaning the kids do so poorly in premed classes that they have to change their plans? I have a hard time believing that. If S19 was premed, I would definitely want him at a top LAC where he would be supported in his classes. Doesn’t weeding out happen more at large schools where O Chem is a large class with TAs doing the sections? That’s the class that killed the idea for a lot of my friends at Northwestern way back then. I just don’t buy that the vast majority of premed students at Bowdoin decide against staying the premed route because they could not succeed in O Chem.
Also, even though I’ve admitted that I don’t know much about premed, I do know quite a few students who have graduated from Big Ten schools who take a year off and then apply to med school. One of their parents told me it’s a big thing to do now because it’s too hard to apply to as many med schools as you need to during senior year of college.
I am 100 percent confident that @HKimPOSSIBLE will go to med school. The thing I’m not confident about is whether he will end up having to take a gap year or two if he foregoes the UIC-GPPA option. I’m also not confident about Which med schools he will get into, meaning he might end up only getting into privates that don’t give scholarships, and might not get into his in-state (lower tuition) medical school again.
That being said, I think that with a 3.6 or better and 90 percent or better on the MCAT (UIC-GPPA requirement) and being a first gen low income student, I’d be surprised if he ran into those bumps. It’s also important to note that the UIC-GPPA program allows him to apply elsewhere, while still reserving his seat. So he can apply for med schools with good scholarships with no risk to his reservation.
In running risk/reward analysis you have to think about how much risk are you really running, and what is really the reward?
My understanding is that @HKimPOSSIBLE is also questioning the reward side. Sure, it’s great to have an on-campus residential experience for free. But I think he perceives that he will have more/better ECs and internships at UIC and in Chicago that are going to be more impactful for him in the medical field than what he’d be able to get in Maine/Bowdoin. @HKimPOSSIBLE correct me if I’m wrong with this.
Lol, I didn’t realize we get to vote! ?
Ok HKim, I definitely vote for Bowdoin. Hopefully your stringer is non-partisan and will tabulate the votes fairly.
@MYOS1634 i think the summary in post #1203 of the “divide” here is an excellent one!
If we’re voting, I’d go for a LAC on the list. I don’t have a strong opinion which one it should be (because I agree hkim will be successful with med school applications no matter where he goes). I do have a strong opinion against commuting paired with some level of financial insecurity, especially now. (Already financially insecure families need more, not less, certainty in coming years with kids to put through college.)
Yes, absolutely they do. 20-25% of kids applying to LACs are “premed” meaning they are smart, think the job is prestigious and think they want to be a doctor. A huge swath of them change their mind before even declaring a major - after the first general bio and general chem. The same thing happens at large publics too, it’s just that LACs tend to be a draw for the type of kid that does want grad school, and they just have less majors to choose from. So lots of “I’m premed” freshman year
I think a smart kid like HKim would do best at a college like Bowdoin. They will make sure he doesn’t fall through the cracks. At UIC, he’ll have to continue to fight for himself - which I’m sure he can do, but why not take the financial safety and help that Bowdoin will give him. Life is enough of a struggle - take the gift of money and support.
@HKimPOSSIBLE I am so excited for you, no matter what you choose, you will have an amazing undergraduate experience! Everyone here has shared truly helpful advise and considerations. One thing my parents suggested to me was to try to go to different schools for undergrad and graduate school. They believed it increases your connections, alumni network and regional views. I can’t wait to learn what lucky school gets you next year!
Okay, I vote for Grinnell, since I feel OP would like to stay close to Chicago, should absolutely not commute, should not go to rural Virginia and most importantly because it is the school least likely to run out of money to give him. Bowing out now. All the best! Keep us posted.
I am holding my vote since I really think he has made up his mind. If she states that this is useful then I will vote. I can really see both sides of this story. I am just happy that this year he gets to have these choices. What I don’t think people understand is the lacs like Bowdoin are not your typical local Lacs. There are Lacs that don’t prepare one for med school that well but are great for other things like the arts. But I can see the allure of staying home per se and having the so called guarantee . He has friends and family members that have done it. I just don’t like the debt. From my experience with debt from medical school and undergrad and even my own doctor who is 45 and still paying off his loans and complaining loudly about it and that family medicine is dying. The NP are taking over their positions and the PA are starting to move in. It will be a dying profession if one doesn’t hyper specialize. Medicine now from an insiders view looks very different now then it did just 5 years ago. This trend will continue in the next 5 years. Salaries will be reduced greatly if working for a hospital system and the ability to pay off loans will take a greater impact on one’s life. The trends are all there but sure someone has to do it. My only advice that I give to people I have mentored for 30 years is create a niche that you become the expert. That is one way to secure your future.
@melvin123 I think you have a very good picture of how I was thinking this. I’ve come to appreciate Liberal Arts Colleges tremendously throughout and before my gap year and because they’re so amazing is why I’m having this dilemma in the first place. Financially and experience-wise, Bowdoin/W&L offers something - “the college experience” - unmatched by a state commuter school.
I’m confident getting at least a 3.6 GPA is not going to be a problem for me at UIC and if it does become one, I’ll be at a point where I have to see whether M.D. really is “right” or even possible.
@Tigerle I will not incur any “debt” per se, for going to UIC undergraduate - medical school is a different story! I do have a side I’m leaning on at the moment, but the decision isn’t clearly cut out enough for me to commit to one place or the other which is why I value everyone’s input in this.
Actually, come to think of it, I’m curious as to why or how my grants and scholarships have exceeded the tuition and fees (the billed portion) by around $2,500?
I also like @MYOS1634’s post #1203 identifying the three categories of 1) commuting 2) finances and 3) certainty of success. However let me offer a different set of criteria based on what I understand to be @HKimPOSSIBLE’s stated criteria in terms of his end goal of attending and graduating from medical school with a desirable, competitive specialty. At the outset, it is perhaps useful to acknowledge how there is a clear preference on posters on this CC board for Bowdoin (or one of his other highly-rated, full-ride LAC’s). The question is not so open and shut on SDN, and the majority may be leaning UIC GPPA.
Consider the following categories for the ultimate decision and how I see the respective opportunities:
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ACADEMIC SUCCESS (as measured by GPA + MCAT): Both schools (Bowdoin and UIC GPPA) will do a great job here. Most CC posters believe Bowdoin has the edge, not only for traditional strengths of LAC’s for individualized attention and low teacher-student ratios, but also because of the residential college and food security Bowdoin has to offer. It does not seem that either school has grade deflation, thankfully, nor grade inflation. I think the commuting plays a role here in the calculation, and that is a negative for UIC, but UIC does offer the GPPA cohort, that like the USC Questbridge opportunity, is an important source of support–one that does have a measurable track record in terms of its curriculum crafted for med school admission with very little attrition of the GPPA cohort. If I were OP, I would try to find out more about teaching the pre-med classes at both schools. I can understand how some might call this as ADVANTAGE BOWDOIN, but I might call this closer as a LEAN BOWDOIN for this category.
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EXTRACURRICULARS AND PERSONAL STATEMENT DEVELOPMENT: Assuming that @HKimPOSSIBLE will do well academically at both schools in GPA and MCAT, the next question is how well he can develop his EC’s and a cohesive narrative about who he is and why he wants to become a doctor that will truly decide whether he gets admitted to schools ranked above UIC, or even those that offer merit funding. Given his extensive contacts in the Chicago area and the urban location with many medical shadowing and EC activities, this makes UIC a compelling choice. Note that the commuting/location which is a negative in #1 above is actually a positive here. However, if he attends Bowdoin, he can also pursue his Chicago-based activities in research and EC’s during his summers, and there will be some opportunities for service and EC’s in Bowdoin as well. But here, for this category, I’d say it is at least a LEAN UIC-GPPA.
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FINANCES FOR UG + MEDICAL SCHOOL: I think CC bias comes into play most prominently in this category, with many urging the fully funded LAC choice because it is cheapest (no-cost) and this board largely exists to undercut the common wisdom that higher education is worth it at any (un)affordable price. The bias is that only the UG expenses seem to be figuring into the CC board responses, not the relatively lower costs of admission into an in-state medical school. That could easily be about a $100K differential right there, without calculating the benefit of the guaranteed admission. Yes, there are commuting/opportunity costs by choosing UIC, which amount to about $15K/year (typical room/board for a year) x 4 or let’s say $60K. But note that if UIC is chosen, it’s not like there are ADDITIONAL $15K costs/year to the FAMILY, since much of that amount are sunk costs, as the father and brother have to pay rent somewhere. But even if calculated at the full $15K, that amount is still less than the $100K differential one might expect in possible medical school costs without guaranteed admission to an in-state medical school. Here, with both UG and Medical School finances included, it is ADVANTAGE UIC-GPPA.
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PEACE OF MIND/MOTIVATION/INSURANCE: This is another category that I think this board is either misunderstanding or underestimating, one that is better appreciated on SDN. The guaranteed admission to UICOM is a huge alleviator of stress throughout the UG experience and immediate aftermath, esp. if gap years and reapplication are needed. It’s hard to put a dollar amount on this, but not having it is a drain on one’s emotional energy and outlook. As an analogy, I cannot imagine what it is like to be a DACA student, always wondering if one’s family members may be picked up by ICE and disappeared at any moment. I’m sure we can all appreciate how taking that fear off the table would produce a peace of mind that would directly translate into better outcomes in one’s studies. While gaining medical school admission is not comparable to the threat of ICE, it is a significant psychological burden largely taken off the table by BSMD programs. Some have unfortunately racialized the significance of this category to attending those who are “ORM” (I presume, Asian), but I don’t think @HKimPOSSIBLE is being stereotypically risk-averse by putting a value on his guaranteed admission to med school. In fact, it merely provides an insurance policy and provides additional motivation to shoot for admission to med schools higher-ranked than UIC since he’s “playing with house money” so to speak, as opposed to having to go for a “Hail Mary” (yes, guilty of mixing metaphors here). With the security of his UICOM guaranteed admission, he can operate and execute in a rarefied class of pre-med students to gain admission into those few medical school programs with merit funding. I think that will be easier to do with the “bird-in-hand” some have referred to previously. But here’s another peace of mind not to be discounted. Being close to family is not insignificant. I do think @HKimPOSSIBLE would be fine foregoing this if the choice to go to school outside of Chicago were a slam dunk. But it is not. Given that, the fact that he can live at home with his brother and elderly father is a good thing. It may also be a necessary, life-saving thing, as elderly people, esp. those living on the edge of precarity have significantly more health issues (as the disproportionate rate of COVID victims among the African American community makes clear). It is great for HKim’s father (and HKim) that his two pre-med sons may be living at home and not alone. I buried my father in my thirties when my parents were living overseas in Korea. Had my father been living closer, he might have shared with his children sooner, his difficulty breathing that might have led us to discovering his liver cancer in time to have (possibly) to have made a difference. It is true that Bowdoin does offer some benefit in this category for the residential living and great food (already calculated into #1 above), but overall, I would still give this category to UIC. ADVANTAGE UIC-GPPA.
Like most CC posters, I was also thinking that UIC-GPPA was out of the running until HKim eloquently stated his reasons for putting it back in the running. And after reading the SDN posts, I also learned more about the decision and how it differs from the CC calculus. But I am trying to take my cues from HKim, using his priorities for this decision, with the ultimate goal of attending and graduating from the most prestigious medical school with the least amount of debt possible in a specialty area/residency of his choosing. I can fully understand how posters here might either disagree with these categories or how they are analyzed, but I do think the categories align with the ultimate goal as stated. And I think it is helpful for all of the thoughtful posters on this board who’ve been behind HKim’s incredible odyssey from the beginning to better understand why there appears to be a mismatch between their overwhelming wisdom and that of SDN and perhaps HKim himself. Hope this helps.
The OP will still be instate (IL) for medschool admissions even if he goes to UG OOS. That would negate your #3 above.
My vote, Bowdoin.
I think that part of the agreement toward GPPA on SDN is due to ignoring or underestimating the costs of commuting, both in terms of wasted time and in financial terms. Someone upthread tossed around the amount of 12k as if it were little - which it may well be for many adults on CC but isn’t insignificant. Commuting isn’t “free”. Metra isn’t going to be too expensive but add books and food… This doesn’t appear to be discussed nor is the fact food insecurity is a real concern for most lower income students or that Illinois’ budget may jeopardize part of the scholarships/grants. In other words, some of the agreement on SDN might be due to blind spots or lack of awareness.
That doesn’t detract from how valid your points are but rather tries to contextualize some of the SDN discussion.
However the 100k difference isn’t a difference: there’s no preventing HKim from applying to ICOM from any college he chooses to attend. He’ll be a resident of Illinois either way and will still have priority.
(I acknowledge it’s not the same as a near-guaranteed offer and your point about previous fear of ICE&residual mental strain is very useful. Thank you.)
@hkim:
Leaving aside GPPA, is Bowdoin YOUR preference among your 4 full rides or do you prefer W&L, Grinnell, or Macalester?
(BTW, imagine yourself a year ago and having to answer such a question ??)
Some of the FA may be because of a NYC study that found food insecurity, book& transportation costs were major problems for lower income commuters. It may also be a mistake, ie., make sure that it’s not offered to offset R&B and would be cut for commuters. Dubious but check (it’s been done before ?).
My vote is actually for the urban LAC - Macalester. Excellent LAC with great opportunities in a great city. Rural LACs are not great fits for most students, and I don’t think it’s a great for someone like the OP. But I don’t like the commuter option for him, so the rural LACs would beat out GPPA, from my perspective.
I’m becoming way too emotionally invested in your decision so forgive me the strong opinion. 
but I really think you need to choose Bowdoin and that’s not because I necessarily love Bowdoin (i know little about it other than its well-regarded) but because I don’t believe you need to need to know your “future box” , if you will, at the age of 19. I believe you will be an amazing doctor someday but you also need the freedom to say that 1 or 2 or 3 years from now, that you want a slightly different direction. And at the same time, the relationships and friendships that you will make in college can’t be made again…and you simply won’t get that at a commuter college (well, not as easily).
my 2 cents.