Regarding SDN, that is IMO a very toxic place. My medschool applicant kid (and most friends) wouldn’t take anything from there, and rarely visitited except for possible timeline information.
@HKimPOSSIBLE if you haven’t already, why don’t you call Bowdoin and ask if you can speak with someone in pre-med advising, and also ask if you can speak with a pre-med student.
Hi @CottonTales. Yes, while @HKimPOSSIBLE could still apply to UICOM, he is not guaranteed admission if he does not accept the UIC-GPPA offer. So the instate tuition benefit is assured only if choosing UIC-GPPA. I just wanted posters here to calculate the cost of UG + Medical School to fully value the UIC-GPPA option, as opposed to the clear financial advantage to fully-funded LAC options like Bowdoin when considering UG education alone.
On your other point about SDN being toxic, I can appreciate that. But we should all be aware that many past and present posters consider CC to be the same. In the end, I think @HKimPOSSIBLE has found the discussion there (as well as here) to be helpful, so I am taking those choices at face value and not discounting either source.
Hi @TheBoldedFranklin. I saw at this other thread on Post #955 that reported Barnard awarding “a one-time $2,500 Summer Work Exemption Grant… to acknowledge that students may not be able to find summer jobs to supplement their contribution towards their COA.”
Post #957 reports that Bowdoin did the same. So I suspect your FA was adjusted with the additional $2500 one-time grant to offset this summer’s job contribution due to coronavirus. Another plus in favor of Bowdoin on the Financial category, although it is one-time. But it speaks well overall to how Bowdoin is increasing its FA, not decreasing it in light of the COVID crisis, not an insubstantial fact to consider.
A few people have referred to Bowdoin as being rural. It is NOT rural. It’s in a town that is part of the Portland Metropolitan area. There are a bunch of hospitals close by. It’s 20 minutes to Portland. It’s maybe 30 minutes to the airport.
There’s also an erroneous idea that you need to be some particular kind of person to like being at an LAC. This is not true. There is some underlying reverse “snobbery” that anyone who likes a big city environment won’t like an LAC because it’s not hardscrabble or gritty, or whatever. That LACs are “precious” and the students are snotty. But maybe it’s that they are fortunate enough to know already what the LAC offers them.
Here is a HUGE difference between a lot of LACs and a lot of big public U’s: LACs are fantastic for enabling students to refine their critical thinking skills. (Hence @MYOS1634 ’s comment about being amazed that anyone would doubt that Bowdoin would be good prep for med school.)
Sure, some big universities do that too, but because these small colleges are discussion based from the outset and necessarily require a lot of student/student and student/ professor interaction and a lot of critical thinking, LACs clearly have the edge. You don’t just go to the library and study stuff. You have to think it aloud and demonstrate competence, with classmates and professors. So no, maybe not great for a super shy introvert (though it was for my formerly super shy D) but that does not mean LACs are only right for some very small percentage of kids. They are probably right for most people, tbh, but that brings me to my next point…
A lot of people don’t even know LACs exist. Well, people who matter know they exist. And I mean that in a “med school admissions officers know they exist” kind of way. And if people do know about LACs, they still think you only study anthropology and 19th century poetry. It’s just not true.
I myself attended CC and a public U. My D is a senior at an LAC. My S is a freshman at a public U. Educationally, there is no question that my D’s experience as a freshman was superior to both mine and my S’s. My S is very happy and nothing I could do would persuade him to even apply to an LAC. But HKim applied and so he must have at least been aware that they offer a great education.
HKim, having been on this site for many years now, I can assure you that the vast majority of people who have been on this thread from the start know what they are talking about. I’ll say it again: you will get a superior education and have a superior college experience if you take the LAC route. And you’ll become a doctor. And if you decide to do something else in addition/instead, you’ll be able to do that too.
“you will get a superior education and have a superior college experience if you take the LAC route”
This is such a sweeping generalization that I can’t not respond. While it may be true for your family, if it were true, everyone would send their kids to LACs. For many students being at a school with fewer than 2000 students would be stifling. That would have been smaller than my HS. Not having PhD level research and facilities also diminishes the level of upper level courses available. And it continues to be a misrepresentation of large universities that critical thinking isn’t happening. Collaboration between students and professors isn’t unique to LACs. It just isn’t.
How would this poster or other students without a car easily get to Portland or other areas with a hospital? Looks like there is only a bus on the weekends?
There are many reasons why this poster and others like them would choose a different route. It’s not a no brainer.
Bowdoin would have to have extreme grade inflation if every pre-med were to end up with a medical school acceptable college GPA. Doing “poorly” for a pre-med is B+ or lower.
@momofsenior1 , I am referring to HKim and his situation. I’m not talking about every student. Of course critical thinking goes on at bigger universities, but it is generally true that bigger universities don’t offer small classes to freshmen and provide ample opportunities for discussion based classes at the outset. I don’t believe it’s a no brainer. I do believe it’s clear where he will have a superior experience.
I believe HKim went to New Trier HS. Roughly 4000 students in a close in suburb of Chicago. It’s a big shift to be going to college at a school 1/2 the size in Maine. That said, I’m absolutely 110% sure that HKim is going to be a rock star no matter where they go to college. The amount of perseverance this student has shown has been nothing short of remarkable. I’m so pleased there are so many great options on the table this cycle!!!
For the record, my D had two classes of under 20 students her first semester freshman year at Purdue. She has friends at TAMU, OSU, and Michigan who all reported the same. Of course there were larger classes as well but then they have recitation groups of 20 that meet 1 -2 times/week. Small class size is not restricted to LACs. She also had fewer students per/class than I did at my Ivy freshman year.
My son had a class with 19 kids first semester at his public U. My D had one class with 60 kids in her first semester at her LAC; again, probably the exception and not the rule in both cases. Especially as students become upperclassmen, they are more likely to have smaller classes at most institutions. But there are also differences in instructional style. And as we all know, profs at LACs are more focused on undergrads, while profs at unis might be more focused on research, etc… I am generalizing.
@momofsenior1 there are kids from
New Trier who go to LACs. Our S at Bowdoin went to a rival of New Trier’s which is also a large public high school with 3200 kids. As you know all know he’s happy as a clam at Bowdoin. Kids are there from all over the world. It’s not like going to your high school where everyone is from your suburb.
It’s a mathematical fact that LACs aren’t good fits for most high school seniors based on the simple fact that 1) many students want majors that aren’t offered at LACs, and 2) many students want the big spectator sports experience that isn’t offered at LACs. Then there is the size and location issue of most LACs. Why certain posters get bent out of shape when someone says LACs aren’t right for most kids or everyone is beyond me. LACs don’t need your defending. I went to a top LAC and will be honest about the pros and cons with students. There are cons. Period.
I think @HKimPOSSIBLE can find information on the LAC/RU debate elsewhere in this site.
While I’ve followed this thread from the outset, I’ve never posted, so here is my two cents.
Commuting 90+ minutes for a pre-med student sounds like being pre-med with one hand tied behind your back. Labs often are late afternoon, study sessions for O Chem may go late into the night. Granted, we are all learning how much can be done remotely, but there is a lot of academic work that cannot be done while commuting, day in and day out.
Throw in the financial uncertainty of Illinois budgets going forward – remember the stories during the Illinois budget crisis, when the state’s failure to timely pay grants for tuition resulted in low income students having to withdraw?
For me, the “bird in the hand” doesn’t really seem like that. The deep pockets and comprehensive financial aid, plus academic guidance and support, at Bowdoin (or Grinnell, if the aid package is comparable) seems like the sure thing.
@homerdog My husband went from ETHS to Haverford and was happy as a clam. Lots of his classmates went to SLACs.
Um @HKimPOSSIBLE isn’t going to get big sports at UIC so he won’t be giving that up to go to one of his LAC choices. I don’t know how many of you are in the Chicago area and really understand what his experience at UIC would be. Lots of kids commute there. It’s not like UIUC.
[quote=“momofboiler1, post:1226, topic:2042952”]
“you will get a superior education and have a superior college experience if you take the LAC route”
This is such a sweeping generalization that I can’t not respond. While it may be true for your family, if it were true, everyone would send their kids to LACs. For many students being at a school with fewer than 2000 students would be stifling. That would have been smaller than my HS. Not having PhD level research and facilities also diminishes the level of upper
@momofboiler1, regarding your question on how somebody without a car would get to Portland or other areas for EC’s …my daughter’s semi rural NESCAC school provided her with many opportunities to do premed activities. She did tutoring and mentoring with disadvantaged kids in the area. Did work with senior centers in the area. Worked with community health centers in the area. All within walking or a bus ride distance. I’m sure many things like that are within distance of Bowdoin.
She also had an EC that lasted 2 years, 2x a month that was 30 minutes away. She only had to go to the schools motor pool area and check out a vehicle to drive there. That is a perk of going to a high endowment school. They bend over backwards to make sure their students succeed. The big endowment of a school is something to take into account. I would be surprised if Bowdoin didn’t have similar perks.
So were getting into discussions that might be a little silly. I have one kid at a lac and one at a large uni. Each is being challenged to no end intellectual wise. My daughter loves and thrives on small classes (her high school total all 4 years was 150 kids). She loves discussion based classes that go really deep. She doesn’t prefer big crowds. My sons education is really no different and has discussion based classes but is more technical in nature. He loves 115,000 at a football game. They both have advisors/ mentors that know their first names. They have professor that know their first names. Getting a meeting with them is super easy at both schools. They have both done research and used their schools to their advantage. Both have classes with 20 kids in them and so on.
@HKimPOSSIBLE case is different to me. He doesn’t need a large guaranteed uni medical program to be successful. He also doesn’t need a small lac to be successful. He will be successful in any of these situations. To me it comes down to debt and where he will be inspired to find himself more and explore. He can do that anywhere. But I do think with a highly structured program there might not be time to explore and find one’s self. I don’t know and could be wrong.
I also don’t think the NW thing is that big of a deal. He , as stated, can do that in the summer and the way I think is that “any” of these programs would love some association with Northwestern. I bet that he can make something happen that is special just by asking. I would think this would be more of a road block at a larger uni then a smaller research lac…
Need only one hand to hold the bird 
I would like to also get off the LAC talk too…and come back to the money. I want to make sure OP is including all costs for UIC.
To start with, as I said above, I would not count on that MAP money. And that’s a significant amount of money. Sure, OP can get loans to cover that, but with med school in the future and other offers that wouldn’t include ug debt, why do that?
What about the mandatory $1,300 UIC health insurance? I am assuming your parent doesn’t have a policy covering you, correct? Has that been accounted for anywhere in your costs and/or FA?
Other costs: How will you pay for food when you are on campus everyday? Your monthly Metra ticket?
These are all costs that OP will not have to worry about at Bowdoin, W&L, Grinnell, or Macalester, and he will have the luxury of no commute.
It seems we are coming down to a tradeoff of the security of a med school acceptance vs. the security of better financial offer(s).