Or maybe I’m just reading it wrong. Where’d you get the depth part for within math majors?
You may want to look at each possible subarea of math that you might be interested in and see if Tulsa’s math department offers enough to keep you interested. I.e. it seems like you found that there is plenty of analysis there, but not Galois theory.
It looks like you have a favorable impression of Tulsa in terms of the college overall, but are unsure if its math department is sufficient for your interests, while WSU’s larger math department with broader and deeper offerings is at a college you seem less impressed with, correct?
My personal bias (which is not universally shared on these forums) is that one goes to college primarily for academic study, so (in that context) WSU is the safer choice in your situation, unless you can assure yourself that Tulsa’s math department will not run out of offerings for you.
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You may want to look into recent years only. What happened in 1960s - 1990s isn’t really relevant.
The questions isn’t what percentage of students goes to grad school. The question is will there be enough students who will go onto grad school? Will you have any kind of cohort to speak of?
I’d agree with that. I wouldn’t necessarily base it on “impressiveness,” the reason I’ve otherwise found Tulsa appealing is due to the fact that I think I’d generally prefer a smaller school environment (I’m coming from a class of under 70 for context), I think I’d meet a lot of like-minded and very smart people there (20% NM), and I think it’s somewhere where I might not actually always be top of my class. That’s an experience I was hoping for at many of the places I applied.
Figuring out whether I can get the classes I want at Tulsa is my primary concern at the moment, because I agree with you that, although nice, those other things are overridden by the academics.
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2017-2018 there were 2 from WSU and 4 from Tulsa.
2013-2018 there were 5 from WSU and 6 from Tulsa.
Not a ton over either time period, but Tulsa still seems fine in that regard, relative to WSU.
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Courses in mathematical physics and the mathematically oriented topic of general relativity may be available through physics departments.
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Though the name of the college can be helpful, it isn’t the college that gets you into grad school. It’s grades, test scores if relevant, experience, and definitely professor recommendations.
My D is currently in grad school and I can tell you 100% that her professor recs, grades, and experience were the main factors that got her into a very competitive program at a highly regarded university. She went to a good college for undergrad, but it wasn’t any of the ones you applied to.
Wherever you go, make it a priority to not focus just on grades. Your relationships with professors and the opportunities you take advantage of will be an incredibly important part of getting into a great grad school program.
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Mathematical analysis is a different branch of mathematics from what you seem to have studied so far (which are mostly from the branch of algebras, or the study of algebraic structures, starting with abstract algebra). Many who enjoy the study of algebraic structures enjoy them because of their abstraction, their elegance and beauty. Mathematical analyses are often perceived to lack such qualities, or even tedious in comparison. You need to figure out how strong your preference is.
As an engineering graduate student who was asked by dissertation advisor to take real analysis, general topology, and differential geometry due to research need, real analysis REALLY opened my eyes to the theorem-proof world of math. The course allowed me to gradually transform from someone who questioned why were we even proving such obvious statements, who had no idea where to start, to someone who could confidently and rigorously prove things in my own work today. The value of real analysis is not so much its content, but the theorem-proving skills/creativity one develops. Thus, despite OP’s unusual mathematical aptitude and mathematical maturity, I still think OP would benefit from a solid sequence of analysis courses, be it at Tulsa or WSU or elsewhere. I would also caution OP against eliminating a school because its strength is in an area of math OP is lukewarm about. It is better to keep an open mind; every area has its interesting share of problems — until you know what they are, don’t say you don’t like them. Lastly, given OP’s interest in mathematical physics where a no-small-part of which deals with differential equations and differentiable manifolds, real/complex analysis is highly relevant, so Tulsa may be a good fit.
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Too many reaches, not enough matches, no safeties.
You are a great student - go forward and bloom where you are planted!
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I’m, uh, pretty comfortable with “theorem-proof” mathematics already. I wouldn’t consider most of the things I’ve learned about abstract algebra or linear algebra obvious, and I’m usually that person in the class who asks a question about what might seem like an obvious statement to everyone else because I don’t trust things that are “obvious” without concrete reasons behind them. I don’t doubt that taking courses in analysis would improve my problem solving skills, but so too would taking any other kind of advanced math class.
I’m not saying I don’t want to learn analysis. It’s a pretty large part of mathematics, and something I’d study to some degree regardless of where I went. But I don’t know if it’s the area I want to commit to.
From my perspective, it’s sort of like Tulsa might not have the major I want to study. If I wanted to go into computer science, I wouldn’t go somewhere without CS classes, no matter how good the program is. Choosing an area of mathematics to commit to is a pretty big deal - there’s a good chance it’s what I’ll be doing for a large part of the rest of my life. Math is math, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t huge gaps in what that means. Science is science, too.
I don’t know that I won’t like analysis. But I also don’t know that I will. I wouldn’t be eliminating Tulsa because I think I definitely wouldn’t like it, I’d be eliminating it because going there would be betting that I would. And if not, I might be stuck.
I agree with your point about mathematical physics though. If I do end up loving analysis, then that makes it work even better. I’m not sure if this is the sort of thing where there’s some particular area of mathematics that I’d love over others, or if it works in reverse, and I’ll end up loving whatever area I pursue. If it’s the latter, then Tulsa would be great. If it’s the former, it feels like a big risk.
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The OP should not eliminate a college based on the areas of strength in the math department. But areas of weakness or absence that happen to be areas that the OP may be interested in could be a reason to eliminate the college.
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There’s no such thing as mathematical physics, even though there may be a course or book with that name. At any top physics program, you wouldn’t find mathematical physics as an area of study. To a physicist, mathematics is a set of tools to help solve problems and describe the physical world. Mathematical physics is basically a collection of such tools that often used in physics. Since mathematical analysis is used more often in physics and engineering than algebras, mathematical physics is mostly about mathematical analyses. Theoretical physicists and physicists in some disciplines of physics do need to study algebraic structures because their worlds are best described by these abstract algebraic structures, but they often have to study them outside of a course on mathematical physics.
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One thing to consider is WAZU’s alumni snd how they care for each other. I have observed WAZU alums hire each other, support each other and cheer each other on in an extraordinary way. I live in Western WA and do not see the same from UW alumni (albeit more prestigious academically).
I think the relative isolation cultivates an us vs the world mentality.
I also don’t have a motivation either way as did not attend either school nor do I have any relatives that have attended.
PS, no one refers to Washington State as WASU, WSU is ok.
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Ah. I was under the impression that in theoretical physics, there are occasionally things that are accepted because of experimental results alone, and that mathematical physics was the discipline that tried to explain some of those things in more mathematical rigor as the result of our current theories, even if what’s being proven is already widely accepted by physicists.
Basically, I really like the concepts and ideas of physics, but I also really dislike the idea of just hand-waving things when they seem physically obvious. I know we don’t have perfect physical theories, so I’m quite interested in (a) looking at physics in a completely rigorous way, and (b) being a part of developing those theories so that we don’t ever have to just hand-wave things. If something can’t be described by the theory, then the theory is obviously incomplete. Physicists obviously know that our theories aren’t perfect, but I got the impression that there were different camps when it comes to how to deal with that fact.
Don’t underestimate the faculty at Tulsa - they have classes in the catalogue based on what their typical math majors study. I suspect that they’d be more than happy to go further with a special student in directed studies.
Also - I would encourage you to dial down the pressure on yourself a bit. No decision is unchangeable. Where-ever you go, you can always apply to transfer in the future. Though it might have financial aid implications, you are never completely “stuck” somewhere.
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The financial aid (actually merit scholarship) implications may be the limiting factor in transferring to a different college later. The NMF scholarships at WSU and Tulsa and other colleges are generally not available to transfer students, even those who were NMF while in high school. In general, merit scholarships appear to be less common for transfer students than frosh. Also, both admission and scholarship selectivity tends to be less transparent for transfer students than frosh.
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Physics is about describing the physical world and explaining everything within it. The physical world is much too complex and messy to be fully described by mathematics. Physicists sometimes have to “invent”, or extend, certain mathematics, without full mathematical rigor (i.e. hand-waving arguments), in order to describe some physical phenomena correctly (“correctly” here means that the theory conforms with observations). To physicists, conforming with observations is the ultimate proof.
Physicists accept that none of theories is perfect or complete (or that there would ever be one). The most complete and accepted theory (so-called “Standard Model”) on microscopic quantum world can’t describe gravity, for example. The “theory” that includes gravity (“string theory”) is purely mathematical at this point with no experimental confirmation, and isn’t accepted by most physicists.
It seems you would enjoy studying philosophy as well.
Yep. I mentioned it as the third thing I’d considered majoring in earlier. I’m torn between liking it’s approach, and being frustrated that it seems unlikely to produce much of anything really provable. I suppose from a certain perspective, math can’t either, but at least we can agree it seems true.
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