Hi, I would really like advice/counsel/comfort…I just got rejected from Washu today and a couple other private schools this week. Throughout the whole application process the items I was least confident about were my letters of recommendation. My counselor and I don’t have a good relationship because I would constantly bother her for schedule changes in the beginning of the school year. At the time I was so focused on getting the classes I wanted, I didn’t think about the consequences…I think for my teacher letters, they would likely say I am “shy and quiet” or something idk…I’m on the verge of tears right now…If I get rejected from all, even the safeties according to strictly stats, the private schools I applied to, does this mean personal sabotage by my counselors and/or really bad letters from my teachers? If I have these suspicions, how could I confirm or disprove it? Could I ask to see these letters?
This doesn’t mean your letters were bad. It just means that you were one of about a bazillion students who applied to WashU and those other places.
When you made your list, did your counselor tell you flat-out that every student with your profile who has applied to WashU has been admitted in the past XYZ years? Even then WashU would be no more than a match because admissions has gotten tougher there over the past XYZ years.
The only places that are real, true safeties, are places where your GPA and test scores are in the range that are stated right on their websites to guarantee admission. Do you have any places like that on your list?
Still worried about your remaining possible admissions? Go see your counselor. Look at your list together. Your counselor may have other good ideas for you for places that are still taking applications.
Talk about leaping to conclusions.
If the privates you were rejected by are as selective as WashU, that can’t be surprising and requires no sabotage considering that they reject the vast majority of everybody.
If you waived your right to see them, then no.
I guess I’m curious about you stats and how they compare to those at the schools you applied to. But if they are all lottery schools, you could be an excellent candidate with great letters and still not get in.
I’m really sorry. I hope you get good news soon!
I empathize with you OP. Admissions season is a roller coaster. Some people are up, others are down. Getting one result you don’t like you can be rationalized, but two, or three? Then doubt and fear don’t just creep in, they jump in and dance all over you.
This is regular anxiety when you don’t have any control. It’s what happens to 18 yr olds. It happens to 22 yr olds. It happens to everyone. Wait for all decisions to play themselves out. You just might be surprised and more than happy in the end, even if it’s not what you thought the end would be in September. Best advice is to wait and let decisions roll in. Evaluate later, like in May if at all. But I get the emotion and real fear, and I’m not trying to downplay that.
Technically you can ask your teachers to see the letters, you just can’t ask colleges to see the letters. The FAFSA is in effect to protect teachers after the fact. So, you can ask your teachers directly, but that doesn’t mean they have to show you.
Why would they only sabotage you with private schools but not public schools?
I know that schools like WashU are very selective and even with the best stats wouldn’t be near a sure thing. I thought my stats matched well with the school with a 2300 and 4.3-4 weighted GPA. Because I thought I had a chance and am especially worried about my letters, being rejected hits even harder. I’m tearing myself apart wondering if I’m being rejected because of my letters, as in them being negative, or because I’m inherently not good enough. I did wonder though, if a letter was especially bad, would this mean automatic rejection in most cases? Would a school give a student the benefit of the doubt?
@ChartresBlue Thank you so much for the encouraging words…I really appreciate it
@iwannabe_Brown I think since private schools ask them specifically for input about me, they may say negative things, but if they are not explicitly asked like with public schools then they may not go out of their way to say bad things about me (I’m hoping).
A bad letter of rec would not lead to an automatic rejection at holistic schools. If other parts of the application lined up to indicate the student was well behaved etc., the school would probably think it was an anomaly. Or they could investigate a little more if it really concerned them.
With top privates, any number of things can lead to an applicant being rejected, even the order in which the app was read (say the AO was very tired). It’s impossible to say, in most cases, why one applicant was accepted or rejected, which is not what you want to hear but it’s the difficult truth. I wish you the best in the rest of your admissions journey.
@dontknow123 It would help to know the specific private schools and the intended major you applied to, but my immediate reaction is that your stats are good enough to get into many colleges, so you may be correct. Hope you applied to some schools which do not require recommendation letters, such as UCs.
Sorry things didn’t work out as you hoped but it is highly highly highly unlikely that there was any kind of sabotage of the sort your are describing. More likely is that you applied to very competitive colleges and just did not get in.
I’m sorry you got rejected by some of the schools you really wanted. Part of being an adult is having the maturity to accept when things don’t go your way. Maligning your counselors instead of examining your own contributions and analyzing the level of competition isn’t exhibiting the maturity and critical thinking skills top colleges are looking for in prospective students.
There are no “safeties according to strictly stats” unless you applied to schools with guaranteed admission for meeting certain criteria. Schools will consider all parts of your application. Having high stats won’t make up for weak essays or tepid LORs. A lukewarm rec letter isn’t an indication of “sabotage,” so seeing the letters won’t help you. If you had a well rounded application list, you should have options in the spring.
Why are you basing your self-worth on whether you get in to super-selective schools or not? For that matter, why are you acting like there is even one objective criteria? What does “good enough” even mean when the criteria can be very different for different groups of people?
Schools like WashU get so many strong apps that they can fill their entering class several times over with applicants that they would like to have. But they can only take X number. At some point, it pretty much is a crapshoot.
And I would second what @austinmshauri said: “Maligning your counselors instead of examining your own contributions and analyzing the level of competition isn’t exhibiting the maturity and critical thinking skills top colleges are looking for in prospective students”.
OP, taking a quick look over your previous posts, it seems there is a history of disorganization on your part:
“This year my school wouldn’t let me take AP Physics C because I registered late….I know it’s my fault but still pretty pissed.”
“Anyway the email totally (curses) went to my junk mail, and I didn’t reply until five days later. I apologized in the email and everything, but honestly I think he’s probably upset.”
“So I forgot/procrastinated sending my official SAT scores out to the colleges I’m applying to and I just sent them out yesterday not rushed.”
“Sooooo I did the ultimately dreaded…I made a typo/mistake in my essay.”
That pattern may indicate an underlying issue on your end rather than sabotage from your teachers and counselor.
^^^Letters however are extremely important. For future applicants, don’t pick recs you think the school wants because they are connected to your intended major, pick recs who really like you and think you are awesome with something unique to offer the community.
College admissions is a tough, tough sport. When people hear stats such as a ‘17% acceptance rate’, they think of themselves in that 17% (~5K applicants)- and discount the 83%: the 25,000 students who were rejected, most of whom would have been well qualified also (WUSTL stats from last year).
The process is not that different for publics than privates: common app schools get all the same materials + individual supplements; including the same LoRs- your teachers didn’t write a different letter for public & private schools. The main difference is that large publics are more likely to be numbers driven, but in the ‘public ivies’ LoRs will matter (not UCs, obvs).
Be aware that it is exceptionally unlikely that your GC- or your teachers- wrote a ‘really bad’ letter or ‘went out of the way to say bad things’ about you. Classroom teachers will try to turn down students for whom they don’t feel comfortable writing an LoR; GCs write a lot of letters and as @austinmshauri points out are more likely to write something lukewarm for students with whom they are underwhelmed.
Moreover, using just the incident you cite, there is more than one way that could be interpreted. Your GC could have noted that you have shown commitment to your academics and persistence in getting a rigorous schedule, or that whle you may come across as shy and quiet, you are able to advocate effectively for things you believe in, etc. In other words- showing the positive side of what you are assuming is a negative. WIthout knowing more about you/the GC/the event it’s hard to say more, but it is very possible (even likely) that you are over-personalizing how the GC sees what happened.
What “doubt” are you talking about? Letters of rec are written by teachers chosen by the student. It was well within your right, and common, to politely ask prospective teachers whether they’d be willing to write a strong rec for you. Colleges therefore expect that the letters they get are the best the student could find. The only remaining “doubt” is what other teachers might have said.
I feel for you, OP. I agree with the other comments; you haven’t been sabotaged. It’s their job to get you in to college! Keep in mind that admissions officers are looking to build a class – they aren’t just considering you as an individual. Perhaps they already have a lot of track stars/ piccolo players / math team presidents (or whatever your application says about you).
The one way your counselor has possibly failed you is in not advising you to apply to schools where you’d be more likely to find a right fit. Ultimately, if you attend a school where your stats put you in the top of the incoming class, you’ll be way happier!
I don’t think anyone is out to sabotage you but it could be that the teachers did not give you “great” recommendations, which I cannot blame them if they did not feel that connection with you. For recommendation letters, you have to ask the teachers with whom you connect and ask them to discuss not only the academics but certain qualities about you which the colleges would be attracted to by giving specific examples. For example, if the teacher stated that “so and so is one of few kids who actually ask me how was my day every time he sees me which demonstrates his genuine caring quality etc.” That is the kind of recommendation letters you want and really has to be earned. If the teachers just sent out perfunctory recommendations, the college admission officer can tell that from the tone. What’s done is done, so learn from it and apply to your future efforts.