<p>There are very very few graduate programs in MT. There are of course, MFAs in Acting. She doesn’t have to decide now. I agree with SDonCC that an MFA is not automatically needed and there are other ways to get training too. </p>
<p>Also agree with SDonCC that the make up of the student body at Muhlenberg is going to be very different than at Cornell, Yale, or Vassar. </p>
<p>Mamajen, yes, your daughter should think through if she cares more about MT or acting or a program in straight theater that affords MT opportunities.</p>
<p>amtc, I was curious about what school your D picked over Yale, and am I correct that she goes to Northwestern? if so, Yale vs. Northwestern is a FAR different choice than Yale vs. Muhlenberg or Skidmore! I am not thinking in terms of prestige, but of the caliber and challenge of the academic environment.</p>
<p>You were lucky that your D had the choice between two comparable academic experiences, making a judgment based on the theater program far easier.</p>
<p>I think another reality at a place like Yale is that the artistic caliber of the students is going to be quite high. Anyone accepted at Yale is very likely to have performed at the highest levels in whatever their EC was – so the shows are going to be cast with top-flight talent. Perhaps the classroom experience is focused more on theory and history than on technique, but the performance opportunities should, as suggested above, not only be abundant but competitive in the casting and outstanding in the quality.</p>
<p>Lulu63, yes, she would jump at a BFA Acting at Syracuse. There is a lot of overlap between acting and MT, at least in the first 2 years.</p>
<p>SDonCC, Thanks for pointing out the diversity issue at Muhlenberg. It is important to us, and one of the only disappointments about placing my D in a nearby small rural school district instead of the larger one we live in.</p>
<p>I think the quality of the student body at Yale is indeed one of the best reasons to go there. My husband taught a semester there as an adjunct. He felt the best students at Yale were comparable to his best students at Vassar, but at Yale the students overall were more consistently excellent. And Soozievt has noted, there are also more MT opportunities there than at Vassar or Skidmore. If my D gets in to Yale I imagine she would go there.</p>
<p>Any opinions on Vassar vs. Skidmore? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my daughter is resisting Vassar mainly because her dad teaches there (not Drama) and she wants to get away from Poughkeepsie. However, it is free, which is a huge incentive. (Vassar would pay half tuition elsewhere).</p>
<p>Dumb question, I keep seeing references to “EC”. What does that stand for?</p>
<p>halflokum, thanks for the info on Cornish and UArts. Unfortunately, no way my D would go all the way to Seattle if Northwestern (Chicago) was too far for her to consider. UArts was on our original list, but we decided not to apply because we heard they had told an applicant she could not succeed in MT if she did not belt. I think there may also have been a dance routine required. Too late now, anyway.</p>
<p>soozievt, I looked at the rubric for dance at Syracuse when we were there. Interesting because they evaluated not just current but also potential dancing ability. It was an extensive rubric. There were boxes rating ability on the bottom, including “possibly trainable” and “only if outstanding singer.” Had to laugh when I saw the three categories for body type: slender/elongated, tight/compact, and “pedestrian.” It was a very challenging dance audition, mainly because the instructor talked really fast.</p>
<p>Had to laugh at the body types! Do you think they are looking only for slender/elongated, or can tight/compact be desirable as well? My D is petite (5’ 2") but with a muscular dancer’s body. I would categorize her as “tight/compact.” Wonder if that’s a disadvantage…? (Not gonna get into the “pedestrian.”)</p>
<p>Yes, my daughter goes to Northwestern but that is not the point of ANY of my posts except my brief mention in my first post. My point is, your daughter needs to balance what’s important TO HER in terms of her education. Which college best serves HER NEEDS given her current choices?</p>
<p>That is why she needs to thoroughly read the course catalog including the core requirements of the schools, the major/minor requirements and the number of electives offered in her areas of interest. She must read the course descriptions, not just the course titles. She should also look at the number of productions, both “school” directed and student directed, straight plays and musicals. </p>
<p>I am sorry if anyone feels I am coming across as judgemental, that is absolutely not my intent. I am trying to show that the right school for your daughter is something only your daughter can decide and she needs to do a lot more research because things aren’t always what they seem and no school, not even Yale, is the correct choice for every kid admitted.</p>
<p>Mamajen, I think that my niece has been disapointed with the theater courses at Vassar because she wanted a true MT program, and the courses at Vassar are more theoretical. She has really enjoyed her dance classes and has had the opportunity to take many masters classes. She is double-majoring in English and is doing very well in her academic classes. </p>
<p>I know that my sister and BIL still think that she made the right choice in choosing Vassar over Muhlenberg. I think that it’s a very tough call when you have to compare a theater program with the overall academic quality of a school. Good luck to you and your D with this decision.</p>
<p>amtc, I certainly don’t feel you’re judgemental, just sharing your experience and giving the excellent advice to find a good match. Northwestern is both academically challenging and has a good MT program. Am I right that you major in theatre and apply to the MT concentration sophomore year?</p>
<p>momjr, good to hear niece likes Vassar overall. I suspected it was the focus of courses, not the quality, that was the issue. Thanks</p>
<p>I agree with amtc in post 72 that what matters the most is what your daughter wants and she must examine each school she was admitted to very closely and see how it aligns with her own selection criteria. That is why nobody here can say which school your D should pick because there are no “shoulds.” It is about the fit for what your D wants and this takes a lot of examination and exploration on her part. People here can talk about what they know of these schools and theater programs or even which school that they would pick if in this situation, but ultimately it is about the right fit for your kid and that will differ from person to person. We can talk about the kinds of things to look at closely for her to determine that and also talk about what we know of these schools or programs. </p>
<p>monkey13, I don’t even understand what the term “pedestrian” refers to in body types? Maybe I am naive?</p>
<p>uskoolfish, agree about dance calls. My daughter knows her “type” and doesn’t ever go to chorus or dance calls (though grew up dancing) because she is 5’3" and also says she just is not the chorus girl type. So, she tends to audition for roles, and rarely, if ever, bothers with open call type auditions for ensemble.</p>
<p>“People here can talk about what they know of these schools and theater programs or even which school that they would pick if in this situation, but ultimately it is about the right fit for your kid and that will differ from person to person.”</p>
<p>This is SO true, soozievt. It’s hard to remember sometimes because it’s so easy to get caught up in the ‘prestige’ factor (of any school) without recognizing that it’s irrelevant what ‘rank’ or ‘reputation’ this or that school is if your child is not happy and it’s not the right fit. I’m not referring to any school in particular–that’s the point. This is a deeply personal decision. </p>
<p>In my opinion, that’s why it’s SO important, in addition to reading the course descriptions (great idea), to actually visit the campus if/when you’re down to a handful. This is separate from the tours you may have done earlier on in the process–this is more directed, in April or May this year, when the student presumably has a much clearer idea of the choices and his/her directions.</p>
<p>I’d recommend going on a non-official day (although Admitted Student days can be fun). It would be especially great if your kid can get permission to sit in on a class. But at the very least, she/he should walk around, absorb the atmosphere, and talk casually to current students. (In my opinion, this would be for your child alone. I’ve actually gone off somewhere and read a book while my child has done this.) Anyway, lunch or dinner at the cafeteria is the best place if you are allowed to purchase a meal there. Another good place is the coffee shop and outside if it’s a nice day. Obviously no decision is going to be fool proof but you can really get a feel for whether the school is ‘possible’ or ‘not possible’ for YOU in a visit. My own kids have had some surprising realizations (both positive and negative) from their visits on campus.</p>
<p>As far as ‘pedestrian’-- I read this as a clunky euphemism for ‘character type,’ especially ‘fat’ or ‘ordinary’. There are several shows that require non-lithe body types. Ensemble though does nearly always demand a certain height and body type. And amtc, I didn’t find your posts judgmental at all; I read them with interest. Thanks.</p>
<p>As the mother of a soon to be graduating senior, my perspective in choosing the right program may be different than those who are just beginning the process.</p>
<p>I have seen students who are the “stars” of a program have quite a different experience than those who are not. I see how tough it is to audition in the real world and how truly talented performers have made very little head-way career-wise one or two years past graduation.</p>
<p>I also see kids finding their own path that may be different than what they previously saw for themselves.</p>
<p>I am not writing this to say do not pursue MT or drama. Actually, I think VP (MT) was the perfect major for my D for many reasons. But I am glad she is getting a degree from an excellent university (NYU) and that she has taken a minor in the Business of Entertainment, Media and Technology that has exposed her to the business side of the entertainment industry. She has also honed her writing skills with a minor in English lit. Coupled with great internships in music, film and theatre, I feel that she has several avenues to pursue. Her resume is filled with both performance and non-performance experience. She is out there networking and (hopefully!) will be employed and happy post-graduation.</p>
<p>My concern for mamajen’s D is that she may be giving up really great academic opportunities to pursue a non-audition BA program without having a real handle on how she stacks up performance-wise.</p>
<p>Yes, there are many kids who are extremely talented who do not make it into BFA programs. But mamajen’s D hasn’t even auditioned at Muhlenberg for talent $, which means she has no idea how she stands vs. students who will be attending and auditioning against her.</p>
<p>She is very upset about how she has fared with her auditions…but how will she do in a program if her talent is not up to the level of others and she doesn’t have performance opportunities? Has she ever been in that kind of super competitive environment, surrounded by students who may have more experience/ talent/ or be type-cast differently than others?</p>
<p>So my concern would be is giving up Cornell, Vassar or Yale worth it if theatre doesn’t turn out to be quite what she expects? Or if it’s not what she sees herself doing in the future?</p>
<p>All good points, uskoolfish. Just to clarify, we asked for a talent audition at Muhlenberg but Professor Richter advised us to wait until late March/early April since being asked to apply for a DANA fellowship indicated my D would be admitted. Sounded like he was focusing on students who would be getting in on talent rather than academics and wanted to make sure they got auditions first. I am contacting him this week to see about visiting in the first week of April and sitting in on a class. By then we should know about academic scholarships. Even if she gets one, we could still probably audition just for an assessment. Thanks for showing that would be a good idea even if it’s not for money.</p>
<p>The fact that she has had so many rejections, including SUNY Fredonia, is telling her now to focus on acting rather than MT. (Several students at Fredonia told us it was the only BFA program they had gotten in to.) She does not have the extensive resume of classes, community theatre, and summer programs most of the other applicants have. She has only one year of dance. She has an unusually pure and beautiful voice but it is not an MT voice (or at any rate, not yet). </p>
<p>She is a natural actor because as a young child she tagged along for much of the instruction on nonverbal communication we gave her older brother who is on the autistic spectrum. We spent a lot of time explicitly teaching the kids body language, facial expressions, emotions, and tone of voice as part of his autism therapy. We watched a lot of TV with the sound off. We played communication games – like saying the same sentence five different ways – the way other families played candyland and go fish. This was excellent training, and it may be what made her interested in acting, but it doesn’t show up on a resume.</p>
<p>I am so proud of this child and love her so much I just wish I could wave a magic wand and make her dreams come true. But this is one dream she may have to give up, or at least modify. It is painful to watch her suffer so much.</p>