<p>the top 10% rule was basically for minorities, becuase the Supreme Court wouldnt let admission for minorities based only on quotas...they assumed that most minorities are in top 10% of their classes so they passed the rule. I do believe the law helped and achieved its goal. But even being a minority myself, i think it should be changed to top 5-7% of each class becasue it is out of control.</p>
<p>I understood the top ten percent law to be for the purpose of achieving racial diversity in response to the Hopwood decision by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals which prohibited the use of race in admissions and financial aid decisions by Texas public universities.</p>
<p>The Supreme Court reversed the Hopwood decision and Texas public universities are now free to consider race, socio-economic status and use holistic evaluation in creating a meaningfully diverse student body. Holistic evaluation cannot take place with the top ten percent law in place however.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the top ten percent law has been ineffective in creating racial diversity at public universities. There are relatively fewer African American and Hispanic students at selective Texas public universities than pre-Hopwood. </p>
<p>Not sure if you have seen this paper...it's pretty comprehensive and interesting.</p>
<p>Thank you, IDMom06, for the link to the UT-Dallas paper. I will read it this evening. I take it you would like to see UT-Austin (and possibly others) move to what you call holistic admissions. By that, do you mean reviewing each applicant on a case-by-case basis? Do you favor any automatic admits? </p>
<p>As I understand it, UT-Austin reinstituted race-based admissions for 2005-2006 applicants (link here: <a href="http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/hrofr/focus/topten79-7.pdf)%5B/url%5D">www.capitol.state.tx.us/hrofr/focus/topten79-7.pdf)</a>, but that Texas A&M did not. Is it possible that some of the anomalies you are seeing in this year's admissions is due to that?</p>
<p>Yes I would like to see holistic evaluation implemented exclusively. I think every applicant deserves to have as much information as possible considered, not just one number. I'm afraid that ultimately high school kids will be motivated to do nothing more than take the easiest possible courseload to attain the highest possible gpa. Extracurriculars won't matter, science and humanities competitions won't matter, community service won't matter, SATs won't matter.....Creating such one dimensional students does not serve the State of Texas or society in general. Yes....Having worked in Admissions, I'm a big proponent of letting the Admissions Office do their job...evaluate the candidates individually.</p>
<p>I do support diversity and AA. But I would like to see more attention paid to minority students at the high school level to make sure they are having a meaningful learning experience that programs them for long term success. Getting them in the door of a rigorous school like UT and then abandoning them to failure is no great favor. It's just a political out for Texas legislators interested in re-election.</p>
<p>As I mentioned the actual percentages of African American and Hispanic students at UT and TAMU has fallen since Hopwood/Top Ten law. Especially with Hispanic students, given that the population of college age Hispanics in Texas has exploded in the last few years, this law is a ridiculous failure. </p>
<p>I couldn't get your link to open, but as I understand it, UT can only consider race for spots left open after admitting the mandated top ten percent applicants. This year, that was only approximately 2200 spots out of over 9000.</p>
<p>IDMom06:</p>
<p>First, I apologize for the bad link. It was a pdf file and apparently there is a trick that I haven't learned to linking to a pdf file. Here is (hopefully) a better link to the House Research Organization website: <a href="http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/hrofr/frame4.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/hrofr/frame4.htm</a>. The relevant article was published 2/25/05 and is entitled "Should Texas Change the Top 10 Percent Law?" and the link is about halfway down the page. I haven't read it all - between this article and the one you provided, I have some reading to do tonight.</p>
<p>Second, I agree with your analysis and I would also be comfortable with letting admissions departments do their jobs. I am troubled by the uncertainty caused by Hopwood and Grutter and the impact these decisions have had on college admissions and students. I join you in wanting students to take the hardest courses they can in high school. A system that encourages students to take easy courses is, in my view, detrimental both to students and to society.</p>
<p>DRJ4-If they have "something other" to bring to the table, it will be evident from their application. Don't use "diversity" as a subterfuge for reverse racism. Saying that a black or a hispanic person has "something other to bring to the table", simply because they have a different amount of melanin in their skin than me is ridiculous, and its a blatant case of reverse discrimination. </p>
<p>Let the best applicants in whether they're white, black, or purple, and please quit throwing around words like "diversity" and "something else to bring to the table" as a thinly veiled excuse for the single greatest injustice in the college admissions process.</p>
<p>very nicely put Vyse. and they had the audacity to CAP you...</p>
<p>^ I know man, what were they thinking? :P</p>
<p>Here's another horror story:A good friend of mine was 2 people below top 10% and he got cap'ed. Btw..Vyse, have you decided whether or not you'll go to utsa?</p>
<p>I'm still thinking things over. I'm not as mad as I was yesterday, so I'm looking at things more rationally now. Plus I found out that my good friend got caped and may go to UTSA, which is a bonus. I'm still going to wait a bit and find out how much FAFSA money I get (which will determine if I can afford Baylor/TCU). But I'm pretty sure it will come down to texas A&M vs UTSA. I'm going to find out from some current people in the CAP program and see what it and UTSA are like, and try and gauge my chances of getting into Texas's college of Communications soph year (since cap only guarantees a liberal arts transfer). I should know soon, its been frustrating being in the small group of HS students that doesn't know yet.</p>
<p>I'm sorry I offended you Vyse, and J281 as well. It was not my intention and, in fact, I used the phrase "something else to the table" on purpose because I was not referring to race. My desire was to learn more about UT admissions without inflaming the issue; however, I would appreciate it if you would let me explain.</p>
<p>First, in my earlier post I was specifically trying to understand what the top-10% system is intended to do, and I was not expressing what I think about this sytem. As I stated a few posts ago in my dialogue with IDMom06, I favor individual merit-based admissions.</p>
<p>Second, I was raised in a small Texas town and, in the year I went to college, I was the only freshman from my town that enrolled at UT-Austin. I am not a minority and, while I might have been admitted under the top-10% rule (had that existed then), I believe I brought something different to UT than what the typical Houston-area freshman brings. Not better, but different. In addition, I was able to take back to my home town the things I learned and my experiences.</p>
<p>Having said this, I do believe that state institutions have a duty to educate everyone. Like IDMom06, I think we need to improve the quality of education in high school (and earlier) so that colleges can select applicants based on merit. If we do a good enough job educating students in K-12, merit alone will yield an enthnically and intellectually diverse student body.</p>
<p>The top 10% report #8 is available on the UT website at:
<a href="http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/index.html</a></p>
<p>(that is admissions/research in the elipse above)</p>
<p>It is very interesting. Just some quick facts gleaned from the report:
*Non-top 10% admits have had higher average SAT scores than the Top 10% admits for the past 3 years.
*Over 40% of Top 10% admits had combined SAT scores less than 1200.
*3% of those had combined SAT scores under 900!</p>
<p>Obviously, there is a contingent of academically weak students among the Top 10% admits. The report slices and dices by SAT range, race, Freshman GPAs, by Top 10 and non-Top 10, etc. </p>
<p>Of course, there are 2 kinds of lies: damned lies and statistics. I thought it was interesting that, in part 2 of the report on Continuing and Graduation Rates, we stop seeing the stats segregated by SAT score, and all the Top 10% admits are lumped into one number. I suspect that the academically weak contingent within the Top 10% admits don't stick around UT too long.</p>
<p>the top 10% law looks good on paper....but i guess it takes being affected by it, to really understand why its a bad idea....i think there are many people like myself that would probably be accepted without the summer school or CAP if it wasnt for this law....but its really hard to take in that they probalby didnt even look at my ECs or essays all that much</p>
<p>also..."over 40% of top 10% admits had combined SAT scores less than 1200"....that is probably true, but think about all of the ppl that knew they would be accepted even if they made a 0 on the SATs....if the test really doesnt matter, you wont try as hard as someone who needs a high SAT score just to have a fighting chance</p>
<p>kbfunkymonkey -</p>
<p>yeah most kids when they realize they will be top 10 really don't care what they get. But, they have to understand that they aren't guaranteed a spot in their college so i'm assuming a lot of these kids will just be put under undeclared.</p>
<p>The Mexican got in. The Mexican is pleased.</p>
<p>wow.... crap..... i got put in the satelite campus BS
Not Ranked
760 Math
640 Verbal
Tons of ECs</p>
<p>3.5ish at what they know is one of the very(if not THE) best private schools in Texas</p>
<p>What weird is kids with not much higher stats than me were put into plan II early.... sorta wishing i had gone for that now... maybe its easier to get in to programs that don't involve the top 10% crap</p>
<p>this really *<strong><em>es me off and a lot of people from my schools are getting really screwed over... some of hte best people in my class who have ivy's as options have been given the summer program and one girl at our sister school admitted to princeton was put in the CAP as well.... sheesh... all i can say is i feel sorry for UT and i hope texas gets its *</em></strong> together, this is ridiculous</p>
<p>I wouldn't feel too bad flashback87...you got CAP'ed not because you didn't desverve to get in for regular admission but because the people at UT are idiots.</p>
<p>Looking at your stats, they are way above UT's standards.</p>
<p>I got CAP'ed too and there is no way I'm going.</p>
<p>Yep, I was rejected as well--for the Summer Freshman Class! TOUGH for OOS. I feel sorry for all the brilliant kids in Texas who aren't top 10 because they go to cutthroat high schools in the DFW, Austin, Houston areas. I had already sent in my deposit to Trinity University anyway, taking their 1/2 tuition scholarship. I'm just happy I didn't take the place of someone who really wanted to go. I did write a REALLY good essay for the cultural question, though, and I suppose I'm a little frustrated by that.</p>
<p>Princeton and not UT? That's BEYOND crazy. To those not accepting the CAP offer, what are your reasons? And would you advise me to take the offer and go to UTSA, or to go to texas A&M instead?</p>
<p>if you go to A&M you're goign to have to maintain a very high gpa just to stay competitive when you plan on transfering. on top of that, the motivation is just not the same. in the back of your mind you will always tell yourself you can just settle at A&M but if you're at UTSA..it's do or die. someone mentioned in another thread i believe that to transfer to McCombs from an outside school is an 11% chance while transfering from within UT is an 83% chance.</p>