Rejected!

Colleges & Universities A-Z University of Michigan
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<p>I’m sorry man, it was the same way for me. Michigan was my dream school for a long time, but more of it had to do with football than academics. I was offered admission, but now that I’ve visited many other colleges and looked at it from every angle, I think I am going to William and Mary in state. </p>

<p>Who knows?? Maybe you will attend your second choice and enjoy it just as much as you would have enjoyed Michigan. If not, hopefully you do well and will be able to transfer. Just remember, being declined from Michigan does not by any means classify you as a mediocre student… work hard and you will be fine wherever you go to college.</p>

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<p>Taxi, the SAT and ACT do not measure ability or intelligence. My sisters are smarter than I and they barely got a 1000 on the SAT. I got a 1540/1600. Those scores are from the days before the SAT was re-centered. At the time, the Harvard mean SAT score was 1380-1400 and the mid 50% range at Harvard was 1300-1500. Let me tell you…I am definitely NOT smartter than 85% of Harvard students!!! I have noticed that the SAT and ACT are a function of preparedness, not intelligence. At most publics, students simply do not expand NEARLY as much time and money on preparing of the SAT/ACT as students at many private universities do. I attended two high schools where the majority of students aimed for top universities, inculding top publics. Most of my fellow students (including myself) spent two years and thousands of dollars preparing for the SAT. By the time we actually took the SAT (most of us took it three times mind you), we knew the test inside and out. We could figure out the answer before looking at the choices. My sisters, who followed a different system of education (the French system), never really prepared for the SAT. When at Michigan, I was amazed at how little time most of my fellow students spent studying for the SAT. On average, most students at Michigan would prepare for the SAT/ACT 2-4 weeks prior to tyhe exam itself. If those students spent as much time and money as I did on the exam, I would bet their average SAT score would have been at least 100 points higher.</p>

63

<p>Alexandre, I don’t think you really read what I wrote. I said those who take the ACT and get a 34+ are generally inherently intelligent, but those who don’t aren’t any less intelligent. I was simply making a statement about those who score high and not those who don’t. Although there’s the occasional kid who people will say scored extremely high on standardized tests even though he wasn’t smart, that generally isn’t the case with scores that high.</p>

<p>Furthermore, I come from a public high school that doesn’t really possess a particularly great academic reputation, so I know more than ever what you mean when you say we don’t prepare. I don’t really know anybody who prepared for the ACT, and I know plenty of people who got a 34+, all of them being extremely intelligent individuals. Honestly, I think our opinions differ because you come from a world of prepped and tutored students where, like you said, many spend thousands of dollars getting ready for standardized tests. I come from a world where nobody prepares, and those who get high scores are only the most intelligent kids in the school. I also know plenty of kids who got scores less than 30 and are equally as capable and intelligent as those who got a 34+.</p>

64

<p>“No to say that those who don’t get a 34+ aren’t inherently smart, but those who do often have a high level of understanding.”</p>

<p>Yes, i agree with this statement. I just think people give too much credit to those who score highly on standardized tests(even the ones with sub-par grades). People just send the message that getting a high score is the end all be all of intelligence, and that if you dont score highly, you are codemned to a life of academic and intellectual mediocrity. I have a problem with people always assuming that the “inherently smart” students will reach that potential(even without working hard), and assuming that students with lower test scores will never be able to do anything great. Thats just what I feel is being said whether any person actually says it that straightforward.</p>

<p>Its just very discouraging to hear things like that, even when i have good test scores(definitely not great though). I can only imagine what people feel like who are in the lower 20’s. I dont mean to discredit any high scorers cause thats great, and it does usually mean they are intelligent.</p>

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<p>Then you and I are in agreement Taxi. I guess I get a little defensive on these boards because there are many who assume that (1) universities should be rasted according to standardized test scores and averages and (2) that all universities have administrations and students that approach standardized test scores the same way. In both cases, that is way off.</p>

66

<p>mjohns142, I definitely see where you’re coming from, especially on the comment about academic and intellectual mediocrity. Just because a student scores a 36 on the ACT, it doesn’t mean he has the work ethic to succeed in life, or that he will get accepted to all the top universities. It has come to the point where top students aren’t even satisfied with a score in the low 30’s because they feel it diminishes, or doesn’t accurately represent, their intelligence. In my eyes, there are many things that are so much more important, like is the student passionate about a particular field of study, or are they ambitious enough to work hard and take intiative when the time comes. It’s a shame that students have become so obsessive about their test scores.</p>

<p>Alexandre, completely understandable. I agree 100%. There are far too many people who don’t understand that there’s more to universities than the average ACT and GPA of admitted students. There are also far too many people who don’t realize that the top universities have actual people looking over your application, and that their personal views, and the instruction they get from the university, are going to be different at every location. If it wasn’t like that, everyone who applied to Harvard would also get into Princeton, Yale, MIT, etc…, and everyone who applied to U of M would also get into U of VA, U of Illinois, UCLA, etc…</p>

67

<p>I completely agree with those statements about standardized test scores. At the same time, however, there are tens of thousands of applications that go to top notch schools like Michigan, and they need something to objectively and efficiently help them judge application quality. That’s not to say that ECs and essays aren’t important, because they certainly are. GPAs and SAT/ACT scores are simply easier to look at. People need not take a rejection personally, simply because admission is extremely competitive. Also, if students are motivated and focused, they can succeed regardless of their colleges.</p>

68

<p>well, I think you might have just gotten unlucky. I was accepted 2 weeks after applying with a 28 ACT, 4.9 GPA, out of state, and not many hooks. Don’t feel dumb or anything, I’m sure they admitted, like, crazy racists and stuff too, its all pretty arbitrary.</p>

69

<p>i was all upset because i didn’t get accepted to u-m as a transfer student, but as someone before said, people seriously underestimate their selectivity. i had had an academic advisor there who put in a good word for me, and helped me all along the way to write the best essays possible, and even that wasn’t enough. perhaps if i’d applied as a fine arts major rather than a linguistics student, but blah.</p>

<p>well at least i don’t feel like a failure and an idiot anymore, seeing the types of people who were also rejected!</p>

70

<p>Guys, I just read through the 5 pages of this thread.</p>

<p>Leave morethanfire alone for what is arguably a fine ACT score. And as you’ve already discussed to death a test score alone is not indicative of the intellectual prowess that a person possesses, let a lone more qualitative factors like drive and work ethic. </p>

<p>It’s been a tough admissions cycle for everyone, although it may not be as obvious on the talent ridden boards of College Confidential.</p>

<p>And to the idea that it is all of morethanfire’s fault for not knowing about the SAT II requirement, be a little less harsh. Obviously, he should have taken then initiative to look up the requirements, but at the same time, we should all know (or at least I know) that the entire college process can seem overwhelming. </p>

<p>You can’t fault someone for taking the initiative to look for something they did not know existed, especially if (as I’m assuming) the OP’s parents were very involved in the OP’s college application process.</p>

<p>To the OP, don’t give up. Like everyone said, you can transfer or better yet you can enjoy where you’re going to. </p>

<p>Not everyone can grow up to be a billionaire Ivy-League drop out like Zuckerberg and Gates. </p>

<p>Good luck with everything =).</p>

71

<p>Why are some people attacking her test scores?
They’re absolutely fine.
I’d personally rather go to a public school, than go to some private school where the only reason why you’re recieving a top education is because of your parents money, but HEYYY maybe that’s just me! (oh yah, and it’s also a TOTAL ego booster even though you have basically no ground at all because I’m positive there are smarter people out there that just went to a regular public school but just don’t have the checkbook that your parents do)
but really, i’m glad to know that half your students get better test scores then that other poster, because I guess you totally like shooting people down with your complete arrogance and boasting about your school
and like earlier posters above, test scores don’t say crap.
My dad’s a college professor, and he even says test scores are CRAP.
and if they are such a GREAT indicator, why are the UC’s doing away with subject testing eh? </p>

<p>Maybe some of the people who get those scores, their lives are spent studying and living under a rock. Yeah, I’d rather take the 28 and at least say I have a life, then be one of those kids where they don’t have any friends because they’re so concerned with getting into a PRESTIGIOUS school.</p>

<p>wow,
some of you are SO freaking arrogant it’s sad.</p>

72

<p>( i was referring to bearcats btw. i’m glad that the posters above me are compassionate since some people seem to lack that quality fully.)</p>

73

<p>^^ agree ^^</p>

74

<p>“I’d personally rather go to a public school, than go to some private school where the only reason why you’re recieving a top education is because of your parents money”</p>

<p>and maybe the 20% acceptance rate, which is essentially 10% when half the class are guaranteed admissions because of legacy or social relations. so nice try. (I was not a legacy, nor from a billionaire family)</p>

<p>“one of those kids where they don’t have any friends because they’re so concerned with getting into a PRESTIGIOUS school.”</p>

<p>actually, going to a boarding school makes it easier to have a lot of friends. Afterall you see everyone everyday and live together. Also, you get a lot more well connected. I know Mar’s, Ford’s and many other prominent family’s kids and that goes a long way in your career. Guess how I found my first internship before freshman year?</p>

<p>"I’m positive there are smarter people out there that just went to a regular public school but just don’t have the checkbook "
you must be a great debater. You do a good job to put a rep of only rich kids can attend on my school. Guess what? 35% of the Hotchkiss are on financial aid, thanks to the 300million endowment.</p>

<p>"if they are such a GREAT indicator, why are the UC’s doing away with subject testing eh? "
WOW, one college out of thousands decided to do away with subject tests, they must be terrible… good logic right there</p>

<p>“My dad’s a college professor, and he even says test scores are CRAP.”
lol my dad is chuck norris, and he says test scores are not CRAP. tell you want. When you make an argument, using anecdotal examples are the weakest way to do so. everyone can say blah blah blah is a blah blah blah and he says blah blah blah . and even if you dad’s a professor, does what he say matter?</p>

<p>“Why are some people attacking her test scores?
They’re absolutely fine.”</p>

<p>Because the OP makes it sound like she should get in with the homeschool GPA and her below average test scores. and that’s not the only thing people are pointing out, also the fact about not knowing about subject tests. Guess what, a motivated student would find out about what he/she needs for admissions. Not knowing is not an excuse. Try doing something illegal and tell the cops you dont know, see what happens. Obviously they are not at the same maginitude but same theory.</p>

75

<p>My experience has led me to conclude that the process is largely arbitrary and capricious. “Can’t let in just kids with high scores and high grades, so… let’s reject this one because we’ve already got enough white males from x state.” “Hey, we haven’t had any latinos from Idaho, so let’s let this kid in with a much lower score.” “Oh, this kid was the president of his school’s greens for gays society - Don’t know what that is, but it sounds kinda cool.”
The admissions people are basically casting agents.</p>

76

<p>“test scores don’t say crap.”
Guess what? WELCOME TO THE REAL LIFE. What a naive statement.
If it doesnt say crap, why are 99% of the colleges using them? Even recruited athletes need to meet the NCAA test score requirement to qualify.</p>

<p>Then after the SATs, when you apply to grad schools, you have GRE, GMAT, MCAT, LSAT.
guess what. Try to find me a person who got into H/S/W or other “career changer” type of MBA program with a 400 on GMAT. or think about it this way, if you want to get into H/S/W MBA, would you rather be the guy that has a 400 on GMAT or 750 on GMAT?</p>

<p>Then how bout job interviews? Many ibanks/consulting firms give you brainteaser type of tests, and quant fund gives you problem solving type of test. Try telling them their standardized tests dont matter. Even lowly All-state put you through an reasoning test when you go interview. DE Shaw puts you through an SAT type of test with a faster time limit for certain positions.
Also, surprise surprise, many ibanks and consulting type of firms (not saying all, DE Shaw, for example) ask you for your SAT scores. that’s right. After 3 years of college, they want your SAT scores</p>

<p>How bout on the job testings? There are companies that have on the job testings for their employees.</p>

<p>These are all standardized tests, you will see many of them in your life, and try to use the “they dont mean crap” mentality when you do them.</p>

77

<p>Bearcats, standardized tests mean nothing. They measure familiarity with a particular exam and nothing more. I worked for and hired for top 5 IBanks and a top 5 consulting firm. In obth canses, the few times standardized tests were used was to narrow the list of applicants using a neutral element. Standardized tests were never used to compare one applicant to another. And most companies have given up on testing applicants. Those types of tests were common in the 90s but most companies have realized that the results were random and did not accurately measure potential. </p>

<p>I know for a fact that if Michigan approached SAT and ACT exams the way private universities did, the mean score of students currently enrolled at Michigan (the identical students that are there with you today mind you) would be 150/2 points higher. That’s right, the average Michigan student would have a 2200 on the SAT or 31 on the ACT if he she spent the same amount of time and money on standardized tests as students at private universities.</p>

78

<p>“And most companies have given up on testing applicants. Those types of tests were common in the 90s but most companies have realized that the results were random and did not accurately measure potential.”</p>

<p>so far this internship recruiting season, I have taken a test with DE Shaw, Bank of America, Wolverine Trading, ZS Associates, All-State… with all-state basically tell you if they want to interview you or not right after the computer grades your test. These are information available directly from the companies. Most of them were similar to the SATs except for DE Shaw’s. That one was crazy hard math/programming. Also, on DE Shaw’s information request email, they basically say " you must fill out the test score blanks. If you dont, you wont be considered"</p>

<p>Ask any financial engineering majors. A huge part of their career planning for the program is brainteaser/number theory interview testing preparation for quant jobs. That is directly from the program advisor.</p>

<p>Also, that still doesnt change the fact that standardized test is a part of life, all the grad school testings, the interview testings (that still exist) , on the job testings… and many more</p>

79

<p>Alexander - I’ll bet that the test score profiles of OOS at Michigan are significantly higher than the in state profiles. And for OOS, Michigan essentially IS a private university. So, I’m not sure what your point is.</p>

80

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<p>DE SHAW (i had a much different test)
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<p>these are just examples of a testing hiring culture we have.</p>