<p>BTW - we HAVE to get students off the “perfect stats and EC” train. That works for state schools and schools with high percentages of acceptances. It no longer is a guarantee for competitive schools. There is just too much competition with the same stats. It often comes down to subjective criteria and whether you were able to make a connection with the Admissions readers. That “thing” you love doing that you thought was unimportant might just have been the thing that tips the scales. I can’t tell you how many valecdictorians are finding themselves shut out of admissions at selective colleges because they look like thousands of others in the pile on paper.</p>
<p>What is unique about YOU that will set you apart from the pack?</p>
<p>These threads should be required reading for parents of younger kids who have yet to go through the application process. Some of the posters here are so utterly lacking in perspective and context that you’d think they had never used the internet, talked to a guidance counselor, or had to examine data to understand their chances. Nor do they seem to have spent ANY time seeking information on opportunities and outcomes for students at various colleges. The lack of critical thinking and initiative here are astonishing.</p>
<p>tdenverfan - what do you mean by the OP was possibly impacted by “over applying” – I mean as a general concept (since I have another kid in 2 years this would be useful information). </p>
<p>I’m not tdenverfan, but “over applying” would most likely refer to the fact that many applicants this year applied to twenty or more schools. That makes it harder to get accepted anywhere and also makes it more difficult for the schools to predict their yields.</p>
<p>@ArtsandLetters, I think you are correct, up to a point. The kid chose to pursue passions and follow their own path, resisted packaging, refused to jump through the expected hoops. The kid has a top-drawer application, not just the usual stuff, is a distinctive, really unique person. I think what we are seeing is that going too far in the direction of marching to one’s own drummer makes some people uncomfortable. But the kid was admitted at Top Choice School - not an Ivy - so I am not complaining. I think that choosing that route leads to a happier person if not always the most “prestigious” results. </p>
<p>People need to understand that, for an unhooked applicant, getting into the most selective schools really is like buying a lottery ticket and hoping to hit the jackpot. A 36 on the ACT is NOT a hook; neither is being valedictorian. It just isn’t. </p>
<p>People also need to understand that there are many really good options out there that are not in the Ivy League. The person grimacing at only being accepted at Grinnell apparently does not realize what a fantastic school Grinnell is; Grinnell has tons of money, too. So does Rice. It would be foolish to turn up one’s nose at either school, both of which are among the very best this country has to offer.</p>
<p>There are so many more people in this country than there were 20-30 years ago, and as another poster noted, the class size at the top schools has not changed in the interim. You can find a high-quality education and highly-qualified students all over the place. The really savvy students are at those schools you are dismissing, like Alabama, getting a bargain-priced education and opportunities you would have to claw and fight for at the big-name schools. Unless your parents have $60,000/year lost in their sofa cushions, it is worth considering how much your education will cost and how else you might utilize that money – or lack of debt.</p>
<p>^^
I’d like to also add that this does not mean @lynjobes kid shouldn’t apply to 20+ schools. Over applying is the collective rise in applications to schools through the Common App among other factors. </p>
<p>I agree 100% on not over-applying. A lot of people I think aimed too high. Schools like Carnegie Mellon, Rice, etc are NOT safeties.</p>
<p>Also, people shouldn’t get too hung up over undergraduate degrees. Are they important? Yes, but most of the types of kids on CC are the grad school crowd. Going to a “Safer” school, doing research, getting a 4.0 and lots of other opportunities is a GREAT way to get into grad school. </p>
<p>Over applying was DEFINITELY an issue this year. Every Ivy had 30,000+ applicants and all of the ‘top 25’ schools (USC, UCB, UCLA, Georgetown, Duke, Stanford, etc.) had between 30,000 and 50,000 applicants. That’s about a million applicants to 25 schools. There are approx. 3 million graduating seniors in the class of 2014. If the top 25 schools usually only accept the top 5% of high school graduates, that means 1 million students were competing for 150,00 spots. The Common App has made it absurdly easy for students to send out 20+ apps, which many students took advantage of if you read around here on CC. I’m not sure how colleges plan to deal with this in the future because population has grown exponentially and the number of available seats hasn’t changed. This years class (at the Ivies) had a RD acceptance rate of about 5%. All I can say is good luck to next year’s class.</p>
<p>I’d like to correct my above post: There were 1 million APPLICATIONS competing for 150,00 spots (not students). I’m gonna guess that only about 500,000 students were actually competing for these spots.</p>
<p>True.
But I think there is the other angle to this which is it is human nature for people, especially teenagers, to believe that "it won’t happen to me’.</p>
<p>If people looked at the data and understood the risks (which I think they have) AND understood that it could happen to them, no one would ever get behind the wheel after having a drink, much less two or three or four. Same thing with other bad behavior - “I won’t get lung cancer because my dad smoked for 30 years and never got it…”</p>
<p>Isn’t it that 150,000 students are competing for the slots at the Top 20 schools? (since Top 25 schools prefer Top 5% of graduates - I know they take more than that).</p>
<p>So if the average top 25 school has 2000 admits (IDK what the right number is), that would mean the Top 5% of graduates (150,000) are competing for 50,000 seats?</p>
<p>It seemed (at least from CC) that there was an unusually large number of International students competing for slots this year. I have nothing against them, but economic prosperity in places like China and South Korea is allowing students from those countries to flood admissions. </p>
<p>I think sometimes it is best to look at practicality of data and what you want to do with your life. Paysacale does a good job at ranking schools by ROI. <a href=“College Education Value Rankings - PayScale 2013 College ROI Report”>http://www.payscale.com/college-education-value-2013</a> Sure some people at big name schools do well, but so so MANY others at lesser names. THose schools onlygraduate about 45K students a year and there are many more jobs to fill than than that. My son had 2 teachers in his high school that went to Ivy leagues, teachers, good ones for sure and I appreaciate the fact that since they attended free, they could afford to teach and provide him wiht an excellent education. </p>
<p>The Ivys are not longer a straight ticket to riches, they are accepting students who want to go out and do good in the world as well ( they get that from thier applications)</p>
<p>@ridethewave - I totally agree. When I attended MIT the admit rate was one in three. Now it’s one in 13. And we’re not even on the common app. It’s just insane. I have students who literally shove their resumes at me and say “it’s all there!” and I tell them - okay, I know what you did. I just don’t know WHY you did it. For some kids (not necessarily the OP) the whole journey has been about getting into a “top college” and they forget the college is not admitting stats separate from the person behind them.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a lot of really good qualified candidates are getting shut out because the numbers are so insanely high. MIT was close to 20,000 for the same 1050 spots. USC was over 50,000 (up from 43,000 last year???)</p>
<p>But I agree - Grinnell is probably one of the best kept secrets in the US. A good friend was on the board there a few years ago and I was floored by how academically strong (and selective) it is. It should be on a lot of student’s lists but I think it’s ignored because of the location. Good for those students who found that treasure!</p>
<p>I’m in a similar situation… 3 rejections and 4 waitlists… No schools left except panic safeties that I haven’t heard back from yet. I have a 3.67 GPA but with 16APs and 2270 SAT, AIME qualifier, varsity swim team capt, boy scout.</p>
<p>@MrMom62. Thank you for your point…many don’t understand that being an INTERNATIONAL STUDENT and demanding HUGE FA changes the whole scenario on your admission process.</p>
<p>@sally305 thank you for telling me
I am a poster who… “so utterly lacking in perspective and context that you’d think they had never used the internet, talked to a guidance counselor, or had to examine data to understand their chances. Nor do they seem to have spent ANY time seeking information on opportunities and outcomes for students at various colleges”</p>
<p>I have researched colleges for years, and knew I had no chance at Ivies or Duke. My PARENTS made me apply to Ivies not me. I’m just really depressed about Emory, so don’t make generalizations about me never having used the internet. Yes, I was dumb enough to apply to super high reaches, but I completely expected rejections from some places, don’t make judgments before you know everything.</p>
<p>I was shocked by how selective the schools on my list actually turned out be. For example, I applied to a state school believing the admit rate was 40% and that it was a match, or at least not a far reach. But my acceptance letter said they accepted 950 students out of over 10,000 applications, which would make it 9.5% at most. That’s madness. (Just my luck, of course, that I managed to beat the odds for the one school that offered me zero grant aid, and did not get into 2 out of the 3 I really wanted to get into). When I got waitlisted at Swarthmore, one of my preferred schools, the letter said there were over 5500 applications for just 405 spots, making their admit rate 7% at most. I had believed it would be 15%. </p>
<p>I made sure to apply to a range from easy admits to Ivies because I figured out going to the process that I couldn’t count on schools like Swarthmore to come through. I was fortunate to get into some really good schools (only a couple offered me enough aid, but that’s another story). I guess I dodged a bullet here. I know a kid who applied to one school with an admit rate over 40%, while most of their other apps were to ivies or reaches. They only got into the safety and they’re still waiting to hear back from one more reach. They’re a perfectionist type and it’s been pretty rough on them not getting into any selective schools.</p>
<p>I think a lot of people make bad choices when it comes to college because all their life they’ve been doing all the “right” things to get into a “top” college. They’re still laboring under the delusion that their hard work means something to these schools, and beyond a certain threshold it just doesn’t. </p>
<p>I do wonder if more students will be admitted from the waitlist this year since there were so many more applications than there were students. I plan on accepting spots on the waitlists for UChicago and Swarthmore, but it feels stupid to me that I got into literally every other school on my list besides those two, Haverford, and Princeton. Like, why couldn’t UChicago have admitted me instead of that crazy selective state school? I really can’t complain though. :P</p>
<p>Swarthmore admitted well over 405 applicants to fill those spots, so their admit rate was not 7%. Last year Swarthmore had 6615 applicants, admitted 947 of them (14.3%), and enrolled 388 for a yield rate of 41%.</p>
<p>That makes a lot more sense. I thought it seemed awfully low. I just ran the same calculation on the state school and it is in fact 40%, so never mind about that part of my post then haha</p>