<p>I'm a callow and naive Princeton frosh who's thinking about going to law school. I am pretty confident that I can get a 180 on the LSAT (I know this sounds arrogant, but I'm a damn good test taker and got a 2400 SAT). I have no real clue what my grades will be but let's suppose I avoid descending into alcoholism or apathy and manage a 3.8 or 3.9. Will this alone be enough to get me into Yale or Harvard Law, assuming my personal statement is tolerable? Law schools admissions are much more numbers-oriented than colleges' are, but you still hear crazy stories about the sort of achievements 1Ls at these schools have managed. Do I need to go out there and win a campaign or cure cancer, or can I work hard and play hard and not need to save the world?</p>
<p>If you get a 180 LSAT, and a 3.8 or 3.9 gpa you have a very good shot at eithr Yale or Harvard. Once you've been accepted to law school, it seems to me that your real challenge might be getting your head to fit through the law school doors. Good luck with that.</p>
<p>You can probably get into either Harvard or Columbia Law on numbers alone, but for Yale you'll have to prove that you're more than an idiot savant.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but let's suppose I avoid descending into alcoholism or apathy and manage a 3.8 or 3.9.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hmmm... given Princeton's new grading policies, a 3.8 or 3.9 will be very difficult to attain.</p>
<p>Yes, you don't realy need that many ec's at HYSPM if you're grades are within the range at Harvard and Yale Law.</p>
<p>But I would suggest you try not to take the LSAT less for granted.</p>
<p>I know of people who took the SAT multiple times or worked really hard to get that 1600. They were only able to score in the high 160's and low 170's many times. Remember, on the SAT you are competing with a huge pool of students, many who do not prepare for the SAT or have no intention of going to college. The curve is also easier on the SAT where you're allowed to miss 2-3 on verbal and sometimes 1-2 on Math. Missing 2 or 3 questions on the LSAT will knock you down from a 180 to a 175 many times. While most 180's had 1600's not all 1600's get 180's.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Hmmm... given Princeton's new grading policies, a 3.8 or 3.9 will be very difficult to attain.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It seemed like much of the early response from some of the professors (particularly those with tenure) was to ignore the policy.</p>
<p>Take a practice test. That will tell you more than anything. If you get a 180 and have a 3.8-3.9 GPA there is no reason to think you won't be able to get into every school you apply to.</p>
<p>Yeah, take a practice LSAT and see where you fall. I, too, put the fear of god into standardized tests, and for those of us who do, the LSAT is legitimately... fun. It's a really cleverly designed test, where the subtleties between right and wrong answers often turn on minutiae, or thinking 3-4 logical steps into the information you've been given. Although I'd only rarely come across a question I legitimately didn't have the correct thought process to solve, my careless error rate went way up. A 170 on my first diagnostic and a 175 as my top practice score were fairly tough to get. Definitely try it and see what you think, but what'll get you isn't a lack of intelligence or reasoning, it'll be careless errors.</p>
<p>a 3.9 / 170 won't keep you out of anywhere, and from princeton, you'll likely have a better-than-even shot at most schools unless your essay or other peripherals suck.</p>
<p>-Steve</p>
<p>
[quote]
It seemed like much of the early response from some of the professors (particularly those with tenure) was to ignore the policy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Regardless, most of my friends have witnessed the consequences first-hand.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you get a 180 and have a 3.8-3.9 GPA there is no reason to think you won't be able to get into every school you apply to.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sorry, I would still hold my bets on Yale rejecting or waitlisting him.</p>
<p>This is all very hypothetical right now. </p>
<p>With nspeds on Yale rejecting or waitlisting. They want people who are more than good test-takers and grade-grubbers, and they have the luxury of filling their class with anyone they want.</p>
<p>Yale hands off many of the files to faculty, who, after all, will have to teach these students. As such, they can look for nothing but good grades, positive recs, insightful essays, and meaningful extracurriculars. </p>
<p>Consider as well that Yale has the reputation for not being the school you go to if you want to be a lawyer; it's the school you go to if you want to be a judge. I don't think they would be impressed by someone who doesn't seem that passionate about the law.</p>
<p>
[quote]
it's the school you go to if you want to be a judge.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>...or an academician!:D</p>
<p>Yes Yale can fill the class with anyone it wants. Sure high GPA and test scores will go a long way, but I do believe Yale wants more than numbers. That's not to say that the high numbered applicants with not so impressive EC's don't get in...</p>
<p>So what is the relative importance of ecs at top 10 schools?</p>
<p>I've never heard of any of them giving specific enough information to allow you to rank them. You're probably safe in assuming, however, that law schools place a lot less emphasis on EC's than undergraduate schools. They're not trying to staff a school newspaper, or marching band, or a crew team. Their focus is more or less completely on the classroom.</p>
<p>While there is no particular EC that law schools are looking for, they do like to see that an applicant has been involved in their school/community, etc. in a meaningful way (though I doubt that the particulars of the activity itself matter so much in most cases) and that that applicant has shown dedication and a passion for something. Law schools want their students to be very involved with clubs, moot court, law review/journals, etc. once they get there, so it makes sense that they would want to see that an applicant has had similar levels of involvement in the past.</p>
<p>How favorably do law schools look at participation in political clubs such as the College Republicans and College Democrats? I write enough for my classes and would rather skip writing for school newspaper or debate club and get outside to do some campaigning. Is this good or bad?</p>