I’m just really starting to get into the decision bit of my research about grad school programs. I’d like to study Hebrew Bible at the graduate level, and in a perfect world - I’d go on to teach. However, I’ve seen a lot of really conflicting information on how to go about that… I’ve seen some people say that it’s irregular to go through and get a separate Master’s degree first, I’ve seen some accounts that say most people get two Master’s degrees before progressing onto PhD work. And within that issue there’s the question of what type of degree to get. I know that I am not going to want to minister. That is not a path I would like to explore as I am not a highly religious person, but I keep seeing that the MDiv is the most popular degree to get to progress as some other degrees are just some kind of scam. I wanted to get a regular Master of Arts in Religious Studies with a focus in the Hebrew Bible, and then progress to PhD study. But I want to make sure that the path I’m setting up for myself is the most logical/successful strategy before I launch into what could amount to another 7 or more years of school and tuition.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Where are you getting your info? I’ve never heard of “most people” getting two Master’s degrees for any Humanities program Ph.D. What do the professors in your department advise? They are probably your best resource for your questions.
It depends on where you want to obtain your degrees. The choices are a department of religion in a graduate school of arts & sciences, or a divinity/theological school (either free-standing or part of a larger university). Divinity/theological schools can be either denominational (various Christian denominations or Jewish) or nondenominational. In larger cities with several theological schools or graduate departments of religions, several schools/departments might form consortia that allow you to cross-register for courses at any of the participating schools. In a department of religion, you would follow the usual progression from MA to PhD. Some departments only admit students for a PhD, but might give an MA along the way. A divinity/theological school might offer both academic and professional degrees. For the academic pathway, you would follow the usual progression from MA to PhD. The professional master’s degrees (MDiv) are intended for those who want a ministerial career. Some schools might offer doctoral degrees for ministerial careers. The professional master’s degrees usually are more general in that they cover all the basic subfields (e.g., Biblical Studies, Church History, Systematic Theology, Liturgics, Homiletics, etc.), and do not allow a specialization in one area, e.g., Hebrew Bible. Some academic master’s degrees in religion are more general, so you will want to look for one that allows some degree of specialization. For a doctorate in your stated area of interest, you would need a high level of language skills in Hebrew, possibly in other ancient Near Eastern languages, and in languages of scholarship (e.g., French, German).
It can get somewhat confusing as the professional ministerial master’s degrees go by several different titles, depending on the particular school (e.g., M.Th, MDiv, etc.). At the doctoral level, some schools offer PhDs in specialties that are focused on various applied areas of ministerial practice, e.g., homiletics. Nonetheless, these are intended for those who want to teach and do research in those areas.
For your stated field of interest in the Hebrew Bible, you also can consider departments of Near Eastern Languages, though the focus there will be on philology and archaeology more so than theology.
Well @snarlatron my adviser has told me that I should get an MDiv before progressing to PhD study - that’s what he did when he got his degree in the 70’s. There are a couple of threads I think on thegradcafe that suggested that having to attain two Masters degrees was normal in order to be fully prepared for PhD level work, and then I was talking to a recent PhD graduate in Religious Studies out of the Iliff/U Denver joint program who said that MDiv’s make it harder to get into a PhD program and that I should look into an MA to get my language skills up before applying to a PhD program because I will only have had 1 year of Hebrew when I finish undergrad, and I have only had time to learn French but no German yet.
I was trying to verify my information, and I found a lot of conflicting results as you can clearly see.
OP, was your advisor just using the term “MDiv” to refer to master’s degrees in general in the theology/religion field, or did he specifically recommend getting a ministerial degree degree first? If he meant the latter, I can’t see that a ministerial master’s degree would be a necessary preclude to doctoral studies. It simply is not the normal progression. Now, obtaining an MA to get your language skills up first before applying for a PhD program does make some sense. Having limited language skills for your particular area of interest would not make you a competitive applicant for direct admission to a PhD program. Once you have more training in Hebrew, you will have a better chance. A reading knowledge of French as a language of scholarship is OK, especially for a master’s program, though you’d be expected to acquire a reading knowledge of German after admission to a doctoral program. If you needed other ancient or modern languages for research purposes, you’d generally be expected to pick them up as needed on your own (though you can take advantage of any courses that might be available).
It is not common, normal, or necessary to get two master’s degrees before going onto a PhD program. I’m sure that some students choose to do so, but the majority of humanities PhD candidates don’t do that. That would be a ridiculous outlay of time and money.
The thing is, there’s no one way - in any particular field. There are some more common ways, but graduate students come from all sorts of backgrounds. There are some PhD students with two master’s and some with none; some do a JD or other professional degree before going; some have worked for many years; some go straight from undergrad…and so on. There’s really no wrong way to do it, although there will always be people who insist the way that THEY did it (or the way they wish they did it) was the right way. Basically, what you need to do is acquire the skills and background necessary for graduate work in the field. If you want to get a master’s first to ensure that, then do that; if you want to go straight through and you can, then do that. I do know that it is quite common in the humanities fields (especially in ones that require language work) to get an MA before going onto the PhD, specifically for that reason.
From your last thread, it seems like other than languages you are a pretty competitive applicant. So if I were you, what I would do is apply to a few top-choice PhD programs in your senior year (like 3-5) and then focus on applying to ~3-5 MA programs in religious studies that have significant concentrations in Hebrew Bible and have access to the languages you need to develop. You can maybe include some MDiv programs if they seem more academic in nature, but even the sort of liberal open ones (like Harvard’s MDiv) seem aimed at preparing religious leaders rather than scholars of religious studies. You want to go to a program that prepares scholars of religious studies.
That way, if you get into one or more of the PhD programs - fantastic! You can just go! That way, if you get into MA programs easily you’re not left wondering whether you could’ve gotten into some PhD programs had you tried. But you also limit your investment by only applying to a few high-priority programs, since you believe that you are a weaker applicant. You’ve also hedged your bets by applying to some strong MA programs that will prepare you for the PhD track you want to take.
@zapfino Hi, my advisor specifically recommended a Masters of Divinity as a precursor to PhD study. My only reservation with that is that he was a minister for a few years before entering PhD study, and when we first met I was MUCH more religious. So I’m wondering if that might have had an influence on which degree he suggested, or if he merely referenced what he did and how that worked out well for him. Where I see my particular stress on first obtaining an MA of some sort is mostly necessitated by my language skills.
I may have said this already, but I have a working knowledge of French, will have a year and a half of Hebrew courses under my belt by graduation, and am starting to learn German now, albeit self taught (Senior year starts in August). I expect that I will to need to learn both Aramaic and Greek as I advance because I like translational and interpretive work, and being able to consult multiple manuscripts can never hurt.
@juillet Thank you for the suggestion! Your advice has been extremely thoughtful, and I’ve found it very useful in structuring application plans and further questions for my academic adviser when I get back to Rhodes in the fall.