Report a failed online class to colleges?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Lots of good advice to college-bound kids here, so here's a question of my own. Would some parents please tell me what my daughter should do in this situation?</p>

<p>She was an accelerated 9th grader, so we suggested to her counselor that she take an online AP class offered through a university in another state, in order to give her a greater challenge. The counselor wasn't sure it was a good idea but supported us anyway.</p>

<p>It turns out this was a big mistake. She could not handle the level of self-motivation and time-management required for an online, college-level class, and she got an F.</p>

<p>We never made the effort to get the grade transferred to her home school; it hardly seemed worthwhile to do that for an F. So there is now no record that she ever took the class, except at the university that offered the class. That was three years ago. Since then she has become one of the top students in her school and has done very well on several other AP tests. Now she is officially enrolled in the same course she failed, but this time at her home school, and is handling it just fine.</p>

<p>Now some college applications are asking if the applicant has ever failed a class, and to give an explanation. She hasn't mentioned this to me, so I don't think she even thinks about it. She could continue filling out her applications, never talk about the F, and no one would ever know. (Would they?) And if someone does find out, I believe her honest answer would be, "Wow, I didn't even think about that." So it would be an honest omission.</p>

<p>To me this is not an ethical issue; we pushed her too hard, and she couldn't handle it. We learned a lesson, and she has moved on and done just fine. To me it is not an ethical issue. I don't think anyone will ever know that she failed the class, so I'm inclined to allow her to leave it off her applications unless she suddenly remembers and asks me what to do.</p>

<p>I would appreciate any opinions or insights, either about the ethics of the situation, or about the likelihood of the omission being caught. (And I really do believe she has forgotten about it. We didn't make a big deal about it at the time, and the subject hasn't come up in years.)</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

2

<p>Good question…</p>

<p>Because she technically failed the course, and is taking it now 3 yrs later
And she took it the first time way too early (and her other grades were great, right?)…
And the challenge of getting online and doing all of that work besides the other responsibilities was a little much for her 3+ yrs ago…(too bad she didn’t withdraw before it got too far)
She might want to report she took an online course 3+ yrs ago (with a little “shove” from her parents) and how she was overloaded with the balancing of it…(didn’t think to withdraw)…how she learned about challenging herself but also time management/balance…</p>

<p>I don’t know if there is a way for colleges to search by student id or anything…so if she fails to report it…will it catch up with her (don’t know)…but it may catch up with her conscience …and yours…
I can see the point of why mention it since its so long ago and she has probably forgotten all about it…</p>

<p>If she home schools for faith reasons…your answer is pretty clear.</p>

<p>Hope that helps +</p>

3

<p>The spirit of the question “did you ever fail a class” is whether or not that happened in the normal high school flow – and at the school where you attended.</p>

<p>The situation that you described is unrelated to that. It’s no different from “failing” some extra-curriculum class at a venue unrelated to school.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t mention it, nor worry about it.</p>

4

<p>Why would you risk the worry of someone finding out when disclosing this is so simple and such a no-brainer?</p>

<p>It’s one thing if colleges don’t ask- then I think bringing it up is awkward, not necessary, and probably not something they care about. But if they specifically ask??? Doesn’t that mean that you’re being duplicitous in not answering accurately?</p>

<p>My company asks all prospective employees if they’ve ever been arrested. It is not uncommon to learn that someone was at a war rally in the '70s that got out of hand and yes, they were arrested. It is not uncommon to learn that someone egged a neighbors house when they were 17 and stupid but ultimately they took a plea, did community service, and moved past it. We are not idiots and we are not looking to screen people out for arrests way back when, or screen people out for their political beliefs.</p>

<p>But we don’t like it when people lie. </p>

<p>So your D should put in the little space next to the question, “I got an F in an online course which I took in 2006. I was unprepared for the challenging material and stopped doing the work midway through the semester. I am now taking the same course at my HS and expect an A or B+ or whatever and am happy to have an opportunity to learn the material now that I am prepared.”</p>

<p>Or what not.</p>

5

<p>I didn’t read your post as if she is being “home schooled”. Rather, she is now taking her AP Course at her home school, not online. What’s the difference? Well, she is currently a typical student at a regular HS and this shows she isn’t getting special attention for taking AP courses. </p>

<p>I think if she is specifically asked if she ever failed a course, she should say yes. (Saying no would be dishonest), but she’s got a great come-back that honestly make her stand out and look really good. 9th grader taking an AP course is already a lot. Taking an online course is also a lot. This is a situation that you can really come out a winner, and you do that by not only telling the truth, but showing proof that she’s a strong student and even explain how she learned a lot in the process.</p>

<p>Keep in mind, if a school asks this, the responses are somewhat mundane. But your daughter has a response that will definitely stand out.</p>

<p>If they didn’t ask, no need to raise this topic. They aren’t looking for a story.</p>

6

<p>I’m with Blossom. Yes she should report it, but I don’t think there is any chance it will hurt her and as limabeans pointed out, in a backwards way it could help.</p>

7

<p>I’m not sure, but do they ask for transcripts for every high school and every college every attended? I remember that from grad school aps. Something else to consider.</p>

<p>I also agree that I doubt they would hold this against her.</p>

8

<p>I’d say: “I took an AP class online three years ago as a 9th grader; I was unprepared for its level of difficulty and failed it. I am now taking it in my high school and I am one of the top students in the class.”
She’ll get props for honesty and for being willing to take risks as a 9th grader and doing well as a 12th grader.</p>

9

<p>We had exact same thing in our house. S took an online college course for dual-credit as a frosh and got an F. He was capable, but spent too much time on his seasonal sport and his new girlfriend. Both of those are long forgotten now.
We told potential colleges along with all his other grades. We also had documentation of when he took the class, so there would be no skepticism of when he took it, to help support our position.
Our S re-took the same college class as a junior in H.S. and got A-. While we weren’t happy to show he got an F, we did not withhold info. It did not seem to affect him with any of the colleges he applied to. Our opinion was that it was better to be fully truthful. The alternative would have been to withhold the info and cross our fingers that no one found out. The explaining why we withheld info would have been much more awkward than being up-front and explaining the F. </p>

<p>So, has your(Op) D ever failed? Absolutely yes. Will a prospective college be certain of finding out? No. Might they find out? Yes.
Is it an ethical question? It is to me. If they ask “have u ever failed?” there is only 1 ethical answer. I don’t understand the point of view that ethics aren’t involved by choosing to to lie or mislead on the grounds that the student was pushed too hard too quick. I can see a practical aspect of that course of action; but not an ethical one. Of course, not every college will ask the exact same questions in exactly the same way; but if one says: “Now some college applications are asking if the applicant has ever failed a class…” There is only one true answer.</p>

10

<p>Knowing how easy it would be to pretend that 9th grade online AP class never happened, I think the OP’s D gets props with colleges for a) disclosing and b) going back, facing the demon, and kicking its tail.</p>

<p>Agree with others that a) this is an ethical no-brainer and b) this could be viewed as a positive, in a strange sort of way.</p>

11

<p>I’m on the non-reporting side if you don’t want to - I feel 100% the same as fogcity. </p>

<p>If you want to mention it in the context of how it improved you in terms the bigger picture you learned from it, great. Otherwise, even ethically, I feel it is not relevant - D could have stumbled into a CD that her older cousin was learning Physics from and did a couple of lessons, took an exam and failed - shouldn’t have to be reported. I would interpret their request to mean part of your D’s regular curriculum.</p>

12

<p>Our son is applying for internships and scholarships this month. They all ask for all transcripts for university courses. He attended five universities dual-enrollment before matriculating so we have to order transcripts for every application. We ordered five from his institutions but one only sends them out one at a time so he will need to do four more requests for transcripts even though he only took one course there when he was 15.</p>

<p>The course she failed and her eventual recovery in the subject might make a nice essay topic though I’m sure that the admissions people could do the math to see how young she was when she took the course.</p>

13

<p>I would call the admissions office and ask them.</p>

<p>Otherwise, I would report it but also highlight the fact that she is retaking the same course. This is similar to what colleges do: the F remains on the record but the retake grade is what is used in the GPA.</p>

<p>It is commendable that she is going back and retaking the class, and I think that is a plus, as someone else said.</p>

<p>This is an ethical issue in terms of how you teach your daughter to handle things like this, perhaps.</p>

<p>The argument that it was outside of school and therefore does not have to be counted does have merit, however. For instance, if a kid took music theory at a conservatory on the weekends, and failed the class, it probably would not have to be reported to schools.</p>

<p>Again, I would call, at least a few schools, to see what they say. You generally don’t have to give a name when you call with questions.</p>

14

<p>Here’s a test for the ethics aspect: Would u report the grade if it were an A? or would you not tell them about the A because <em>it wasn’t exactly a high school class</em> grade and hope they didn’t find out?</p>

15

<p>Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful answers.</p>

<p>For some applications, it is too late. She has already submitted them, and I did not remind her about the class.</p>

<p>For her remaining applications, if they ask, I will suggest that she report the failed grade and explain it fully. I am convinced that would be both honest and beneficial.</p>

<p>About ethics: When I said it was not an ethical issue, I meant for my daughter. If it honestly doesn’t occur to her to mention the class, then she’s not being unethical by omitting it, just forgetful. If there was an ethical lapse in her omitting it, it was mine, because I did not point it out to her.</p>

<p>This discussion was helpful. Thank you again.</p>

16

<p>PSB- sort of off topic, but you seem like a great mom to me.</p>

17

<p>She needs to disclsose because willful misrepresentation (This would be a lie of omission) is grounds for having your admission rescinded if accepted or being dismissed from the school once enrolled. Remember you the student signs the application stating that all of the information is true.</p>

<p>If she should apply to professional school, especially law school she would have to disclose the information.</p>

<p>Student recently posted on the law school forum that he now has a year long disciplinary probation due to discrepancy in the application information)</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/840663-undergraduate-disciplinary-probation-effects-law-admissions.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/840663-undergraduate-disciplinary-probation-effects-law-admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Look at it this way, if she was successful in the class, you would have wanted the class and the grade reported. You don’t get to pretend it does not exist just because it was not the outcome that you wanted. At the end of the day it is not worth the risk.</p>

<p>If you do not think life will catch up with you I will leave you with this- Marilee Jones, MIT</p>

18

<p>My son has sent in his common application. He is a very strong student, high grades and SAT scores–and is applying to some Ivy league and comparable schools. He had some mediocre AP scores, including scores from AP tests that he was encouraged to take without having had the class. </p>

<p>His college counselor told him to just include the AP scores that were 3 or above, since these are the only ones that would count for credit. So this is what he reported and why. I am wondering —was this sound advice? I am worried that it might appear he was omitting information on purpose (not his intention)–rather than just including information he though pertinent. He is a very high integrity person (Eagle Scout) and would be mortified if it were thought he was withholding vital info. Any thoughts or suggestions?</p>

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<p>Usually AP course scores do NOT have any affect on admissions at all. Our kids never reported ANY of the AP scores until they chose a college to attend. Then they sent their scores to THAT school so the school could determine if and how much credit the school would award our kid for their AP scores. Personally, I would not send AP scores until the child picks a school to attend.</p>

20

<p>An online AP course? If it was a university course for university credit, then it probably should be reported. But an online AP course in middle-school? I think that I’d view it like private music, archery, soccer or ballet lessons.</p>

<p>BTW, for those worried about it, the proper thing to do is to withdraw by mid-semester and take a W if they treat it like a proper university course.</p>