Requesting an advice regarding an unusual case

Parents Forum
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<p>I already posted this at 'What are my chances?' section and was told I may get a better responce here.</p>

<p>I'm U.S. citizen by birth only (born to North African parents). I'm 26 years old and was outside the U.S. between the ages of 2-19. I was always at the top 1% in school (country-wide) but had all my education in Arabic, and except for some classes I took at the junior college to acquire some basic English skills after my return to the U.S., I was away from school since 1998. I learned English relatively quick, but not quickly enough to keep up with native speakers. I've been back in the U.S. since 2000 and, as I mentioned, beside washing dishes and delivering pizzas, I have taken few classes at a community college in the Midwest. I have a total of 49 credits and GPA of less than 3. After my 1st semester in college I start getting into expenssive unfortunate situations (Traffic tickets, no work...etc), went broke and, eventually, had to leave school.
Can I disregard those 'bad credits' and miserable GPA and restart as if I didn't attend college?</p>

<p>I'm not prepare to take SAT at all, I just need a chance to demonstarte what I can accomplish, but don't know where/how to begin.</p>

<p>Though my finances aren't as stable as I would like 'em to be, but I WANT TO START OVER!!! AND NOT ANYWHERE, I'm looking at no less than UC Berkeley, and no more than Princeton (unless it's unacheivable in my case). I can relocate to any part of the country if I have the slightest chance.</p>

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<p>
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Can I disregard those 'bad credits' and miserable GPA and restart as if I didn't attend college?

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</p>

<p>If you are looking to go to a different school, you will have to apply as a transfer student. </p>

<p>In addition you are required to submit official transcripts from all colleges which you have attended. To not do so would be grounds for any college to immediately rescind your admission and toss you out of school for misrepresentation.</p>

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<p>melbusefi: It sounds like you have had quite a hectic life so far, and now you want to settle down and learn. However, those credits do count, and to not report them would make you vulnerable to a charge of academic dishonesty if you apply anywhere without claiming them. If it were learned at a new school that you have lied about your previous record, you could be dismissed. As you probably know, all students have to apply with test scores, personal information, prior academic history, and it all has to be accurate. There are a few schools and situations which allow you to declare academic bankruptcy, but from what I understand it is after several years have passed, and/or you have reached a certain age, and you must "own up" to what studies you have done already. Your grades already earned at a community college are pretty good considering your (self-reported) limited English skills. Your only chance at gaining access to one of the more competitive schools is to be very successful at a community college, or non-competitive college, show evidence of learning from any mistakes you have made, and become very competent in English. It will be difficult, but if you really want to do so, you can. Good luck to you.</p>

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<p>Your best bet would be to return to Community College and get a two-year degree with excellent grades-- you can re-take subjects where you had low grades in the past-- then apply to better schools on that basis as a transfer student for the last two years of a B.A.</p>

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<p>Pyewacket's advice is good - I had a terrible GPA after about a year of community college (I was goofing off, basically). I went back later and retook classes, did better in others, and transferred with academic scholarships.</p>

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<p>I agree with DSP regarding completing your associates at your current school and to do well in the courses you have remaining. In addition you should look into what articulation agreements are in place for students that graudate from your CC. There are schools where you can look to transfer into their schools that are specifically geared toward adult learners (I know that there are programs at Columbia, NYU, Penn, Georgetown and others).</p>

<p>You should also find out what there process is regarding retaking a class. At some schools if you do badly in a course (D or F) you are allowed to retake the course and the new grade replaces the old grade.</p>

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<p>WOW!!! Thank you folks!! What you wrote almost made me cry. So there is hope?</p>

<p>I was so hopeless, especially when contrasting my record with others' : No H.S. history I can demonstrate besides a single graduation transcript + Old age + bad grades on those 49 credits of college i have. </p>

<p>My next question:</p>

<p>I realize that I must show exceptional performance, but even with 4.0s at the best community college in CA, can I even dream about, say, Stanford (they seem the most wellcoming)? How about ECs and all that good stuff?</p>

<p>This leads me to asking: What are Subject Credits? My academic level now is notably below any decent American H.S. student. I need much work to just get even with H.S. graduates. This means more time at the junior college, which translates into packing on more credits. I know how well I can do, but who will take me with 100+ credits and 3 years or more at the junior college?</p>

<p>Again, I thank each one of you for clarifying.</p>

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<p>mel:</p>

<p>the UC's understand life situations. Concur with others: earn your AA with better grades this time. </p>

<p>Note, however, that admissions to Cal for out of state applicants is more difficult. Last year, 340 applied and 32 were accepted OOS. Moreover, the middle 50% college gpa is 3.53-3.88 for OOS transfer applicants.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

9

<p>So transferring to another CC wouldn't be a good idea before improving my status at the one I attended?</p>

<p>Is an articulation agreement simply a transfer agreemennt for older students?</p>

<p>I'm still afraid that I'm dreaming to much if I consider ANY of the iveis. Should I be?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Is an articulation agreement simply a transfer agreemennt for older students?

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</p>

<p>Articulation agreements are transfer agreements between community colleges and 4 year schools. Some schools may have automatic feeder programs from community colleges into 4 year schools if a student has a certain gpa.</p>

<p>My take is if you are considering any of the ivies, you would be better served by looking at one that has a school specifically geared toward adult learners. For example; Columbia University school of general studies, NYU Paul McGhee School.</p>

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<p>An articulation agreement is an agreement between a community college and a four year university that the four year university will accept students from the community college after the equivalent of 2 years of full time classes, provided that the students meet certain minimum standards (GPA, certain classes taken).</p>

<p>I don't think that considering the ivies is dreaming too much, but you'll probably need to take some more classes (possibly at a community college) and do well in them before applying for a transfer. Remember that there are plenty of good schools that aren't ivies, and in the US an ivy degree is no requirement for (or guarantee of) a good job, especially after you've worked for a few years and have experience.</p>

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<p>If your academic level is below where you need to be to do well in a college program, my advice is to take the most intro courses at a community college. THey may not even give you college credit but will refresh your memory on what you need to know in order to take college level courses. I know our local CC prices these courses very, very reasonably. I believe that there is a comprehensive algebra course, and some composition courses as well as some study and research skills courses. That may be a good starting point. Also some schools have courses for students who are not in a degree program at the school, where you do not have to send any transcripts of prior courses at college. If you do well in those courses, you can then apply for spot in a degree program, and would then have to provide old transcripts. But if you have done well in their courses (and there are base courses that can provide core credits and foundations for future courses in that special student category), you are very likely to get in there as a degree seeking student despite poor transcripts from prior schools. </p>

<p>It will be tough for you to get into a school like Stanford. It's tough for those who have near perfect profiles of the highest standards. Unless you have some sort of hook that interests such a school, it is unlikely that you will be admitted. I have no idea how the California unis look at something like this, but there are any number of 4 year colleges, including some pretty selective schools that will consider your application in favorable light if you do very well this time around. It would be wise to get your degree in a school that does have excellent departments in the area of your major, but is not a super selective school, and apply to a "dream school" for graduate studies. Not to say you should not give it a try once you have your a year or so of excellent grades. Some of the ultra selective schools are very interested in those who have conquered adversity and who did well in the face of many challenges. I don't think they are big on non traditional students, but you just never know. But I would not count on it since it does have a huge random factor, and the chances are at best very slim for you to gain admittance. Make sure you have some realistic schools on your list as well as a school like Stanford, and try to focus on those more realistic choices. You just cannot count on admissions at a school of that selectivity level.</p>

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<p>Princeton does not take transfer students, BTW, so you cannot apply there.</p>

<p>Are you in CA? If so, taking CC classes in CA and transferring to a UC should be relatively easy. UCB and UCLA will be happy to take you as a transfer student if you earn a good GPA. You will, if you finish your AA, transfer as a junior, and since the UCs lose a percentage of students before their junior year (transfers, dropouts, etc.), you should be fine to get in.</p>

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<p>Thank you DespSeekPhd and everyone else. I'm thinking about relocating to CA. but I still need to know few things:</p>

<p>1- Do I have to be a resident of the same district I attend CC at to take advantage of the $20 per unit tuition (e.g. Reside in berkeley and go to Foothill or DeAnza)?</p>

<p>2- Which CC has the best Biotech program?</p>

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<p>tsk, there is always hope man. THis is america, the land of dreams.</p>

<p>and yea you have to be CA resident =)</p>

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<p>1 -- Call the college and ask. Generally, in California, I wouldn't think you'd have a problem, but this is based on old experience. California CCs are state funded, so you shouldn't have to worry about "districts."</p>

<p>2 -- At the CC level, I'm not sure this is an important distinction. In two years you would be looking more at the basics of biology, chemistry, math, etc. I would generally expect (and your local experience may show that I have NO idea what I'm talking about) that specialties like biotech would be more relevant in your third and fourth years of study.</p>

<p>Good luck in college, and keep in mind that you don't HAVE to go to Berkeley or Princeton to be a huge success after graduation.</p>

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<p>There should be a time period to establish residency. Once you fulfill that period you can enroll in college.</p>

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<p>Thanks to everyone.</p>

<p>AdamantineX, I'm always told to stay realistic about my goals. Many times it seems that one's breaking the 'reality threshold' by hoping for so much, and it takes information to distinguish between one's attainable hopes and his unacheivable dreams, that's why I find it very useful being on this forum and asking for advice, feedback, and Dreams break-job.</p>

<p>WashDad, 1- I asked, and you are right: I don't have to worry about districts in CA.
2- You are also right about this one since I'm not 'diving' into a major yet.
I realize that good education isn't bound by the institution's reputation, but I can't deny the high value of 'reputable' schools' education, whether it's real value or a value that's a mere product of social elitism.</p>

<p>PVmember, the residency time period differs from one state to another; it's 366 days (1 year and a day) in CA.</p>

<p>One thing I need to mention since I'm at it: I'm working as a truck driver in the 48 states (very odd/unintellictual environment, but I segregate myself to a degree, and it also generates fair temporary income and plenty of time for audio books - audiable is great - and sometimes pre-preparing for SAT), and am planning on doing this until early april at least (Gives me the great advantage of free school-visits travel).</p>

<p>The conclusions I arrived to thus far is this (Posting it to get more feedback):</p>

<p>Since I'm planning on proceeding in my education to Grad school and not just obtain a certificate, what I need to search for is not a JC with an excellant program in a specific area, but a competitive JC with an excellant Honors program and a very good reputation among top schools (in order of personal/financial-aid preference: Stanford, Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell, UPenn, Harvard, and others) and I have the whole country (the 48 states at least) to find a Junior College that fits this critaria.</p>

<p>And so far - before visits or phone calls - the only one that seems to fit is SUNY Rockland Community College. So, please, if anyone knows of any Junior college that's REALLY rigorous, has a good rate of transfer to excellant schools, and has a REALLY GOOD Honors program, inform me about it.</p>

<p>I'm returning to my Home-Base next week to see how I may retake the many classes I Ced and Ded (I even Fed some) to improve my GPA.</p>

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<p>cptofthehouse, you said:</p>

<p>"...Also some schools have courses for students who are not in a degree program at the school, where you do not have to send any transcripts of prior courses at college. If you do well in those courses, you can then apply for spot in a degree program, and would then have to provide old transcripts. But if you have done well in their courses (and there are base courses that can provide core credits and foundations for future courses in that special student category), you are very likely to get in there as a degree seeking student despite poor transcripts from prior schools."</p>

<p>Can you provide some schools' names please?</p>

<p>I thank you very much for you suggestion about non-crdit courses. I never thought there is such a thing. And I DO need to improve my research and study skills, that's probably my major weakness: How To Work Hard and Smart.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
One thing I need to mention since I'm at it: I'm working as a truck driver in the 48 states (very odd/unintellictual environment, but I segregate myself to a degree, and it also generates fair temporary income and plenty of time for audio books - audiable is great - and sometimes pre-preparing for SAT), and am planning on doing this until early april at least (Gives me the great advantage of free school-visits travel).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If you have time for pleasure reading, I'd recommend "Uncommon Carriers," by John McPhee (Farrar, Straus and Giroux
June 2006). You'll enjoy Don Ainsworth, an 18-wheeler driver/owner you might see something of yourself in.</p>