<p>For those of you who are (or have) done research while in undergrad, how did you balance research and coursework? Did you do research during the school year? If so, around how many hours did you spend in lab? I would to inquire this because as time progresses courses get harder and students need to devote time to them, while keeping a high GPA. Did your school work suffer in the process? What about those of you who went to ivy's or top 20 schools?</p>
<p>i worked about 30hrs/wk during the school year from the beginning of my sophomore year through senior year, and was full-time during the summers. There was definitely an adjustment period, and my grades suffered a bit at first, but i thought it was relatively easy to achieve a pretty good balance. I really like doing research, so I made the time for it, but I'd say the minimum needed to be productive in the lab and contribute meaningfully is about 15hrs/wk.</p>
<p>Two questions philly. Did you do or are you going to do MD/PhD? Did you do other ECs besides research during the yr and over summers?</p>
<p>no, i did not apply MD/PhD, because I want to be a clinical physician and not end up in the 80/20 lab/clinical split most MD/PhDs are lead into, and I didn't want to spend the additional years working on a PhD. I am, however, going to a very research-oriented med school that requires me to do a thesis project and gives me the option to take a fifth tuition-free year to do research, and I am very interested in a career in academic medicine. It is probably worth noting that in a number of my interviews I was asked to explain why in fact I was not applying MD/PhD.</p>
<p>Lab work was easily my number 1 EC, but I was also very active in a number of clubs on campus, and served as an editor of an undergrad journal. During the summer one year I worked as a summer RA and did my hospital volunteering over a summer and one school year as well.</p>
<p>Is it case western?</p>
<p>no, I've decided to follow BDM's example and not publicly announce where I am going to school so as not to unintentionally color the advice I give to premeds on this board. Feel free to PM me if you're curious, or you can look over on SDN where I post under the same name.</p>
<p>Sorry if I pried. It is just that Case is the only school that I know off that offers the MD/MS program. I was just curious if any others offer it also. I am more or less sure that I want to do MD/PhD but I want to apply MD/MS just in case b/c my parents are concerned with the schooling involved for MD/PhD and then I'll assess the situation based on acceptances. I too want to do research, but I just don't want to spend all of my time writing grants. I would much rather team up with a head PhD who will be the main PI, whereas I will pioneer the research studies and do the actual experiments.</p>
<p>Most top-research medical schools will informally offer an MD/MS.</p>
<p>I was not aware of Case's program (i didn't apply there in fact), but I do not see the real benefit of the MS degree, as it won't really open up any doors for you and you ought to have a lot of research experience by that point anyway. Their five year CCLM program, which is actually it's own school, is a 5 year program geared towards academic medicine. Pitt has a couple certificate programs that are quite tough to get into but give you scholarship and a fifth research year. Penn, Yale, and Stanford all have tution-free 5th year options, and in the case of the latter two schools, about half the class utilizes the opportunity. Duke has a unique curriculum that crams all of the preclincal material into one year and gives you a third year for research.</p>
<p>Now do you formally apply to these programs when you are applying for your MD or do you apply once you have already been admitted? Also do these schools then question why you have not applied MD/PhD? And do you apply as a reg MD applicant to the school overall? If so, then that would mean that just having a ton of research, say close to 5 yrs would be insufficient b/c one would need a ton of other ECs such as clubs, various types of volunteering, TAing, tutoring, etc.</p>
<p>Even if you apply MD/PhD, in most cases you must still get through the MD committee, which means you still need all the extracurricular bells and whistles, it just matters less. Applying MD/PhD does not mean you get to just do research and ignore the rest of the 'soft' requirements for med school.</p>
<p>Regarding specific programs, you are best served by looking into each school individually, as their policies vary.</p>
<p>blazin, </p>
<p>I go to an Ivy School and do about 10-15 Hours a Week. (Philly, 30 hours a week, thats just impressive. I couldn't do that on top of classes, intra murals, working out, partying, etc.)</p>
<p>I find the best thing to do is schedule your research for a distinct time every week. For instance, I do mine from 2-5 4 to 5 days a week. I like this because I have class in the morning, then I get lunch, then I do research, and then I go to the gym (my brain hurts after research because I'm on a scope the whole time), then I eat dinner, pretty much everyday. Then at night when I have work to do, I am super productive because I have no time to waste. I also like to do my research during the week because it gives me free weekends to party and do uninhibited work during the day.</p>
<p>Do you do well in school though? Also do you do other ECs besides research or is all of your time spent on research only? And do you get enough sleep with your busy schedule?</p>
<p>philly, when you were doing research 30hrs/week during school year while doing all the other ECs, were you also taking a full courseload (15 credit hours)?</p>
<p>yeah, i was doing a full courseload, it was from my sophomore through senior years, averaging in general five classes a semester at Penn. Again, I emphasize that the amount I did is probably excessive for what most people want to do; I have a commitment to doing research so I was really into it, and don't think such an amount of time is by any means necessary. I do think 15hrs is the minimum per week necessary to contribute meaningfully in most cases though.</p>
<p>Your sophomore to senior years must have been really tiring and difficult. As blazinyan previously asked, how many hours of sleep in total did you average every week?</p>
<p>In regards to MD/PhD, I have this theory. Please comment on it.</p>
<p>Couldn't going to a top 20 school be more detrimental than going to a state school for MD/PhD because more ppl will probably to MD/PhDs from top schools. So say that that there are 2 students who are applying to MD/PhD from the same top 20 school. If one of the applicants beats the other in GPA, research, and maybe MCATs or even 2 out of the three, wouldn't that applicant be more likely to be chosen for MD/PhD than the one who's accolades and grades were lesser. And another aspect has to be taken into account. Most MD/PhDs apply to the same schools since there are only 35 MSTP schools and each MD/PhD program (with its limited # of spots) can take 1-2 max or not even anyone from that given school. So it seems to me that in a way, if an applicant excels at a state school, at least their app will be looked at, whereas when 2 ppl from a top 20 school apply, one student's app will outshine the other and the one with lower grades may not even get accepted no matter how hard he or she worked. Of course the counter argument would be that the one who has higher accolades can only choose one school to attend, so the other applicant with lower accolades can still be accepted to the schools that the other one withdrew from, was waitlisted at, or rejected from. Am I correct in a way?</p>
<p>I actually disagree completely. Your undergrad institution matters a LOT more for MD/PhD admissions than MD-only admissions, because reputation is such a major factor in PhD programs in general. It helps a lot to work in a big name lab at a big name school, as you are more likely to be able to develop connections to the researchers who work on the PhD side of the admissions process. There are only 35 MSTP schools, but there are others that offer non MSTP MD/PhD programs, and some that have an MSTP program have additional privately funded MD/PhD slots. </p>
<p>However, not all of these programs are necessarily that worthwhile in pursuing. While reputation matters relatively little regarding medical schools, as long as you go to an accredited US institution and get good grades/board scores, etc. you can be competitive for the residency you desire, this is not true on the PhD front. There are many PhD. programs that are quite simply not worth attending because the institution awarding the degree is not well respected, however this does not generally apply to MSTP schools.</p>
<p>ysk1: probably about 6 hours a night</p>
<p>I see what you are saying, but in ivy schools I assume at least 20 ppl apply MD/PhD from each school. Since MD/PhD programs can take 1 person max, what makes anyone in an ivy at an advantage who is one of those 20 ppl, but not the best out of those 20 ppl. There is a greater chance that that individual's accomplishments, will be overshadowed by the individual with higher grades and possibly more research experience. I agree that not everyone is the same and students in ivys are assumed to have lower GPAs than those in lesser prestigious institutions because of who rigorous the work is, but only 1 out of the 20 will be accepted into each school. I understand that this does not seem like bad odds since more likely than not all of them will get into an MD/Phd program, but there is also the chance that not every MD/PhD program will take someone from that school in that given year. I understand that there are ppl in ivys with high grades, MCATS, ECs, and research, but there is also that competition factor within one's own school. Whereas a student from a state school has a bit more time to do more ECs while getting the same grades. I mean if a student from a state school has 3 pubs and the ivy individual does not possess any, then wouldn't the student from the state school be favored more, if he has more research experience because ivy students need to study more to get the same grades as they would in a state school. I mean there are always exceptions, but i am saying overall. As a result, they may lose some time that could be used to devote more time to research, physician shadowing, volunteering, TAing, etc. So in retrospect, it seems that if a state school individual is studious and devoted to rise above his classmates, he will get into an MD/PhD program because he will make sue of all of the opportunities around him and prove that he is just as smart.</p>
<p>Btw, what are some MD/PhD programs that are not MSTP?</p>