What Artloversplus describes is not the case for all DO schools.
^^ I said âMOSTâ DO students, except those from PCOM, LECOM, MSUCOM, OUCOM and very few others. Majority of the DO students have to find their own fourth year rotations.
My MD nephew did five elective rotations his fourth yearâŠwhich he had to find himselfâŠand apply toâŠand travel to. Itâs not just DO students who do away rotations.
I think what @artloversplus is talking about is fourth year required rotationsâŠnot elective away rotations.
Elective away rotations are done by both MD and DO school students.
D is an MD student - has chosen to do a couple of away rotations. One scheduled for next month. @WayOutWestMom - thanks for the explanation on away rotations and why.
âI think what artloversplus is talking about is fourth year required rotationsâŠnot elective away rotations.â
I think every DO school is going to be different. In my Dâs case. in her third year rotation, there are âElectivesâ(ie Orthopedics) and Required rotations, the whole year is âassignedâ by the school, depends where your âbaseâ hospital is you may have to travel, even for required rotations. The school sends students all over the place, into about 10+ hospitals. Her Forth year roations obviously includeded both Electives and required, she had to find them on her own.
My oldest is doing 2 elective away rotations, both at highly sought after programs which offer her top choices in residencies. Itâs a crap shoot, because surgery is so competitive, but at least she will be in beautiful places!!! Also⊠she was one of 5 students selected in her class to receive a scholarship for her 4th year (peer and faculty nominated for students who demonstrate âscholarship, excellent personal qualities, clinical and professional potential, and exemplify the art of medicineâ). We are super proud of her and REALLY excited that the extra money will help with applications⊠I had NO IDEA how expensive residency application process was!
@moonpie If you think the applications are expensiveâjust wait until your D is buying those last minute plane tickets to fly all over the US for interviewsâŠ
Yes! First the apps, then the flights, and last minute and not well planned out. My DD flew to the Bay area 4 different times. She also ended up flying back to her home program for that interview between other travel interviews. At least with med school she got an early offer and could cancel the rest of the travel, not so with residency. She knew her #1, but you donât know that you will match there no matter how much they seem to like you, so you have to go to all the interviews.
DDâs med school covers a large geographic area with the clinical rotations, in MS4 she did not rent an apartment, she just went from rotation to rotation, often with lodging included, that saved a bit on loans to allow her to put that money toward residency interviews.
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Fellowship is now over, DD is packing to move back to her home area and start real life this year. Written boards-done, oral boards-scheduled, fellowship boards- next year. Itâs been interesting watching the interview and contracting process unfold.
Yes!!! @WayOutWestMom thatâs part of the expense Iâm thinking about⊠and hotels!
^^LOL! I remember those days! D1 flew from one side of the US to the other, then back to the first side again, then home which another flight all the way across the country all in 8 days. She came home beyond exhausted. Thankfully she didnât have a rotation going on at the same time. (And in the midst of all this flying she got diverted by bad weather and ended up 350 miles from her interview site. She had to rent a car & drive the last 350 miles in a hideous snow storm. Oh, and the airline lost her luggage too.)
Some residency programs do give hotel discount codes to applicants. Although Iâve heard rumors of some residencies paying for hotel rooms, neither of my kids got that lucky. (D2 did get her hotel room upgraded from a basic room to suite by one program that wanted to impress her, but that was as good as it got.)
D2 minimized her hotel costs by sharing Air BNBs with classmates interviewing in the same city whenever possible and crashed on the couch w/ friends from undergrad a couple of times.
My D flies a lot and has been hoarding frequent flier miles from 3 airlines for her residency application season this fall. She also just got married and had Uber, Southwest and United gift cards on her registry.
@bajamm
Smart idea!
D1 had so may FF miles from her residency interview travel she earned a free trip to Tahiti. (Which she took the week after she graduated from med school. Her graduation present to herself.)
@WayOutWestMom my M4 came home for a few days to go to a bunch of dr. appointments (turns 26 at the end of the month, no more parental insurance!) and I told her about your daughterâs Tahiti trip, and she saidâŠâoh yeah, Iâm definitely going on a trip after all this!â
Heads up for those applying for residencyâ
Hahnemann Hospital in Philadelphia (affiliated with Drexel COM) has applied for bankruptcy and will close in September. Over 570 residents have just been orphaned, including those who just started their training last week. Hahnemann will still be listed in ERAS when it opens in Sept, but do NOT apply there.
@WayOutWestMom That is awful, its like closing down a med school. Do you know why it went bankrupt? I never thought a hospital can run into the ground.
A young doctor that mentored my D as she was going through applications had his surgery residency shut down as he was finishing his 3rd year of residency with two more years to go. He was able to find another spot several states away and finish his residency, though it was harrowing for a bit. It can and does happen and can be quite stressful, though doesnât have to be the end of the world.
Hahnemann has been struggling financially for the last several years. There are lots of reasons, including changing demographics of the area where the hospital is located and the expansion of other local hospital systems. Two years ago the hospital was sold to a new owner who in a burst of cost savings measures promptly cut staffing and cut all staff salaries ( everyone from the physicians to janitors) which led to more staff leaving which in turn left the hospital dangerously understaffed and the remaining employees stretched very thin. There were some serious concerns for patient safety with some documented patient safety failures. An exposé in one of the local papers of the dangerous conditions at the hospital was the final blow. Patients numbers dropped dramatically and whole floors of the hospital stood empty.
ACGME is doing what it can to assist the orphaned residents. Theyâve set up a help hotline and a clearinghouse of residency openings. Several of the local hospitals/residency programs (Jefffersons, Temple, PCOM) have offered to take some of the orphans and the ACGME has agreed to temporarily raise the cap on resident numbers at those programs. However, there are other issues.
Hahnemannâs owners are asserting the GME funding for residents is their asset and are refusing to release the funds to other programs. They are particularly outspoken about not releasing the funds to other local hospital programs whom they view as business rivals. The owners have suggested they want to auction off the GME funding/slots to raise $$ to help settle their debts. (I donât see how this is legal or possible, but itâs looking like it may take a lawsuit or six to resolve this.) Without the GME funding that is supposed to follow the resident to wherever they train, other programs cannot accept the orphaned residents.
Additionally, individual specialties have their own rules about how long a resident must train with a program in order to qualify for board certification. Almost all require that a residentâs final two years be completed at the same program. This means that current senior residents w/less than 2 years of residency left who transfer will have to repeat training if they want to be BE or qualify for fellowships. (And this mean more funding issues since by law the repeated years cannot be funded with Medicare $$.)
Anyhow, this is a major mess.
Thereâs no tuition cost, but some schools do charge fees up to $300.
Major mess seems to be an understatement with the Hahnemann situation. I feel for the residents caught in the middle. @WayOutWestMom Thanks for alerting us to the situation.
From the news clips, I learned that Tower Health is going to take over the Hahnemann Faculties and Residents/fellowship. At least the relief is in the workings.