My parents are elderly, my mother has an oxygen device as a new therapy the past few months. Dad is fine-for-his age. Both have their covid boosters. They live in a small town.
My (vaxxd & boosted) caretaking turn starts soon. Dad’s birthday falls in that time. Brother #1 (vaxxd & boosted) lives nearby and will stopby with his small unvax’d kids (too young, still)
Brother #2 and wife put off their boosters as an nusiance to their travelling, and are currently in day 11 of their covid infection. She has relapsed enough to go back to the doctor. Brother #2 says it’s no big deal, and since they are 10 days from testing positive, it’s fine for them to come hang out for the birthday in a week, regardless.
Am I completely nuts to have said “hey, you sure that’s a good idea?” . My mom does not know about this. Brother #1 says let’s not tell her. I said, that seems like a bad idea. Let me add that the son I hope to see for Thanksgiving has a permanently damaged immune system and his doctors warn against groups of any kind for him.
Outdoors and masks.
Your mother already has a respiratory compromised situation.
Unless your care required medical decision making, I can’t see how you don’t tell your mother.
I would say to the vaccinated (correct?) but experiencing positive Covid symptoms right now that out of an abundance of extreme caution that you really can’t see or interact with them. Tell them it’s out of deference to your son who absolutely cannot contract Covid. I’m sure they are aware of his medical issues but may be unaware of the danger getting Covid posts for him.
If they would like to forgo your caretaking session, you will bow out and visit your parents later.
It seems like they wouldn’t want to find another caretaker with short notice. But I always like to place the blame on myself than accuse them of being uncaring to you and your parents.
I would think that after you explain your issues, it would dawn on them that your mother also has similar issues. But I think if they insist on coming, then your mother has to be told
I wouldn’t shush. I have no medical background but I would be inclined to do two things:
consult with your mom’s doctor on his/her views of the potential risk to your mom and ask brother 2 and wife to test immediately prior to visit. Your mom’s doctor might have thoughts on her specific risk if she were to be infected and perhaps even on the efficacy of her vaccines/boosters. I would have brother 2 and wife test with an at home test the morning before they come to visit. Again, I have no medical background but my understanding is that the home tests are good at indicating whether someone is contagious (you might want to read Michael Mina on this to see if you agree with my take). Take care!
Brothers #1 and #2 have been doing a good job helping our parents, as they are much closer geographically. I volunteered to do a turn, because the timing gave my family a buffer before my son is slated to be with us (I will soft-quarantine between being at my parents and seeing son)
Everybody knows what the issues are, it’s just a classic difference of risk management. My folks are perfectly capable of deciding for themselves and I can’t see a circumstance where I do not tell them. Hoping it sorts itself out because Iwant to avoid some sort of confrontation between us, which my mom would find extremely distressing. But I don’t seem to have the language to make B#2 change his opinion. He always says I just worry too much and it will all be fine, and I start to question myself.
So your brother thinks it’s a good idea to not tell your parents because they don’t like conflict, but the other brother who is currently experiencing active symptoms of Covid and tested positive thinks it’s a good idea to visit said parents.
I guess I don’t know what there is to think about. Don’t visit if you are currently testing positive or experiencing symptoms of Covid to immunocompromised people. Birthday or not.
If you feel uncomfortable with the short duration between active symptomatic Covid and your personal safety, then you should voice that also.
Conflict is a better option than getting Covid. Imo
In addition to the Covid positive family members having two negative tests in a row before they can come, you should seriously reconsider the issue of the children who are too young to get the Covid vaccine.
Youngsters get infected just as easily as anyone else - it’s just that they may be asymptomatic, but they are still just as likely to carry it to, and infect, others.
Hopefully, your young relatives are old enough to receive the lower dose pediatric version of Pfizer that has just become available. BTW, there’s not much difference between the immune function of a 2 yr old vs a 5 yr old. In fact, most of the vaccines that children receive are the same dose for a 2 yr old as for a 5 yr old. My point is that it is very, very likely that the reduced dose Covid vaccine is just as safe for preschoolers old enough to pass for 5, as it is for 5 yr olds, and far safer than the inevitable Covid-19 infection that they will have if they are not immunized. But time will take care of this, as the vaccine will be approved next for 2 and up, and of course the kids will get older, too.
What has worked for me (friends, family, everyone claiming to be an expert on epidemiology) has been for me to decide very early on that I am not the Covid Police. I don’t give advice, I don’t take advice except from my doctor. I have family members doing dumb things, I have family members acting totally obtuse when it came to endangering other, vulnerable people (the non-vaccinated insisting on visiting a family member undergoing chemo “but it’s ok because we kept our masks on”). If that won’t get you to vaccinate, nothing will.
But I digress. My goal was to stay healthy- and so far I have, and the fact that other people think I’m a nut, overprotective, brainwashed by the pharmaceutical industry- I don’t really care. I’m tired of hearing about “natural immunity”.
If my parents were alive I’d have done anything I could to keep them safe, and offending a sibling over something which sounds risky and easily avoidable seems like a small price to pay.
But only you know the true family dynamic. Hugs to you, stay safe.
This is from the CDC site: " I think or know I had COVID-19, and I had symptoms:
You can be around others after:
10 days since symptoms first appeared and
24 hours with no fever without the use of fever-reducing medications and
Other symptoms of COVID-19 are improving*
*Loss of taste and smell may persist for weeks or months after recovery and need not delay the end of isolation
Note that these recommendations do not apply to people with severe COVID-19 or with weakened immune systems (immunocompromised)."
So…your brother actually lines up with that. I know when I had COVID, I was surprised that I was told by multiple providers (my doctor and the nurse who called about my contract tracing) that I could come out after 10 days, even though my son who I live with developed it later than I did and I was caring for him. I’m assuming that this ‘when to leave isolation’ guideline is data driven (in terms of transmitting), it is the standard isolation advice after all and what my kids’ colleges do as well.
Anyway, in your case, I think I would tell your mom and let her decide, and/or have your parents check in wittheir doctors, if you are not convinced by the CDC info.
The decision about what constitutes a health risk and whether or not one is worth taking isn’t up to your brothers. Those are decisions for your parents to make. I’d be angry if any of my siblings purposely tried to take that power away from our parents.
Your mom and dad might want to consult their doctors for advice, especially given your mom’s current issues. My mother had lung problems from having whooping cough as a child and ended up with an oxygen device. I listened to her struggle to breathe for more years than I like to count. She passed before Covid, but while she lived she made every decision that affected her health. If someone was sick it was up to her how many days they had to be symptom free before they could visit. It wasn’t up to the person who wanted to see her.
Hiding the fact that your brother’s family has Covid is lying by ommission. It doesn’t sound to me like they’re suggesting it so she doesn’t worry. It sounds like they don’t want to miss the party. I would absolutely tell your parents and let them decide. Model the behavior you expect your children to exhibit when it’s their turn to care for you. Is there a reason the party can’t be postponed or done remotely? Maybe present all possible options to your parents and ask what they’d like to do.
Your brother who tells you that you worry too much is trying to divert the topic from the one you should be discussing (how dangerous is this virus that attacks the lungs to our mom who’s on an oxygen device) to one he prefers (whether or not you worry too much). Don’t permit it. What you worry about, and how much, isn’t a decision he gets to make.
Agree with this. Since it is her health that is the issue, she telling the kids the COVID-19 rules for visiting her may stop an argument between the kids about what the rules should be.
OP here…Brother 2 and wife have been covid-convalescing for 11 days and that is not a secret from our parents, it is the fact that the wife is relapsing my brother wanted to not disclose. I think his motivation is to simply not worry our parents at this point.
I spoke with my parents today and updated them anyway. And have told both my siblings I have done so, framed as giving our parents the information they need to make an informed decision. Group consensus is we will wait and see if the sick people meet the CDC standard of 3 days without fever or symptoms outside a cough; there is no party per se,just dinner.
Long haulers will cough perhaps forever. It can be a symptom of the damage, not a sign of contagion, apparently? The agreement to basically wait and see feels like a bit of progress, and once I am physically with my parents I’ll have a better sense of whether Mom wants someone to be the bad guy (she is like that sometimes) because I am happy to just be that person.
I have to agree, why got get everyone tested. The rapid test is supposed to be very good at detecting if one is infectious.
I had a scheduled visit with granddaughter a day after I returned from overseas. I went to get tested before I went to see her.
Last Xmas when we decided to rent a house for a family get together, we all got tested few days beforehand because of my mother.
When I read the OP, my most immediate concern was for the son with the permanently damaged immune system, whose doctor said no group gathering. You could pick something up at the birthday party (or anywhere else for that matter) just in time to be contagious over Thanksgiving and expose him.
There will be 2 weeks between the two events, and we test before we see him. I work remotely, and DH works in a tightly controlled covid-serious workplace.
We basically don’t see anyone else, or go anywhere.
Again, there is no “party”. 6 vaccinated adults, at the most, having dinner, going home. Issue is how to get the 2 recovering from covid to stay away even if their doctor says it has been long enough.
I will test before I go, and my Dad tests regularly, but my sibs will never agree to that. My plan right now, if the problematic pair need to be there despite my misgivings, is to sequester elsewhere in the (huge) house for the duration. I do not think it will come to that, but what can you effectively do? Bar the door? Refuse to come at all? Is there such a thing as 70% safe and looking for 90% (because there is no 100%) is a fool’s errand?
Just how covid-cautious are your parents? Seems like so many elders just give in, because they don’t want any conflict. Are you going to be the only one sequestering in another part of the house for the duration?
I was wondering about the 2 unvaxxed young children, also. Do they regularly see your parents?
Would your brother lie about covid symptoms subsiding for his wife? And if she didn’t come, would he still come?
My parents are pretty cautious, but the difficulty in small towns everywhere is that you just can’t stay home 24/7. there’s no delivery, no takeout, no GrubHub,and “crowded” is difficult to quantify. Elder doctoring tends to need inperson visits, and telehealth is limited. (I give my Dad props for teaching the two of them to do Zoom)
Like many elderly people, they are balancing risk through the lens of what good is being clear of covid if it means, with the time I have left, I can not see my family or friends?
Brother would never outright lie. If she is too sick to come, he will want to stay with her to care for her. Small children see my parents virtually on a weekly basis, in person maybe every two weeks for visits less than 30 minutes. Until now, most of the visiting has been outside. It’s really to keep spirits up, but also to eyeball how our parents are doing.
This looks like a situation where your parents should make the COVID-19 rules for visiting them instead of having their kids fight about what the rules should be.
Implicit in the conflict seems to be different assumptions about what your parents want. If they say it explicitly, then wouldn’t that prevent any conflict, assuming that you and your siblings will respect their wishes on the matter?