<p>My son (rising senior) took the SATs in March and got 750/720/760. He's now talking about retaking in the fall to pull up his math score. (His SATs are oddly almost the reverse of his PSATs, which were 71/75/69--but his writing has improved markedly this past year, so it's not that much of a surprise.)</p>
<p>Here's my concern: his GPA is 3.2 W/3.1 UW. We're hoping he can pull it up to about 3.35/3.2 in the first half of senior year (3 AP's that he's likely to do very well in), but that would be a best-case scenario.</p>
<p>Seems to me that his GPA is so much the limiting factor here that the practical benefit of a slightly higher math SAT is likely to be pretty negligible. Am I wrong?</p>
<p>Can’t really answer this question definitively without more information, but here are some things to factor into his decision.</p>
<p>First, what colleges and programs is your son looking at? If his list includes Caltech, Harvey Mudd, MIT… then a math score at or above 750 would be highly desirable and a retake may be worth it (if he prepares well for the retake).</p>
<p>On the other hand, if his scores are already well above the 75th percentile scores for the colleges he’s interested in, then a retake may not be worth it – unless there’s a merit scholarship consideration.</p>
<p>If his safeties (or matches!) offer merit aid for scores above a certain value and he’s almost there, then a retake may be worth it – unless the merit aid would only replace need-based grant aid at those schools.</p>
<p>As to his GPA, whether this is a “limiting factor” depends on other factors. Course rigor is an admissions factor, and GPAs can’t be analyzed in a vacuum. What’s his class decile rank? Is his high school known for having a punishing core curriculum and grading accordingly? Is he taking the toughest courseload his school offers? Given how close his weighted and unweighted GPAs are, it looks like he hasn’t taken a lot of AP/honors classes (one, and he got a B in it?). Are many more offered? Was he eligible to take more than he took?</p>
<p>If he could only choose between boosting his GPA and retaking the SAT, I think that boosting his GPA would give him more options overall. However, the two aren’t mutually exclusive, and the math subscore is widely said to be the easiest score to raise with practice. If he studies over the summer and retakes in October, he may be able to bump it up just enough to hit the coveted 1500 M/CR range.</p>
<p>On the other hand, he may need that test sitting for SAT II subject tests if his list includes colleges that require them… especially if he plans to apply early anywhere.</p>
<p>//If his safeties (or matches!) offer merit aid for scores above a certain value and he’s almost there, then a retake may be worth it – unless the merit aid would only replace need-based grant aid at those schools.//</p>
<p>Most of the schools we’re looking at don’t give exact criteria for merit aid (just vague language about “outstanding academic record,” etc.), but for those that do, it seems that it’s always about GPA or class rank, not SAT’s. Are there schools that offer merit aid strictly (or even primarily) on the basis of test scores? I haven’t found any yet.</p>
<p>Does he want to take it again? Does test-taking stress him out? He has very good scores, but sometimes these guys want to reach higher. My DS is very strong in math and the “worst” portion of his SATs was math at 740. He wanted to take it again, did so and raised it up to 780 without extra studying, just paying closer attention.</p>
<p>In this new era of selecting scores, seems that it’s just your time, money, and test anxiety to consider. Ideally the GPA would be stronger, but it is what it is–just try to make the first semester as good as possible. Would he use the 4 hours of SAT tests to work on a school project to raise his GPA? It isn’t necessarily a direct trade off.</p>
<p>720 is a very respectable Math subscore and not meaningfully different from 760 for a kid with his GPA. If he wants to reassure colleges about his Math abilities let him take either Math1 or Math2 subject tests. He could at the same time also take another subject test (or two) to demonstrate that even though his grades aren’t the best, he does know the material.</p>
<p>Do the grades reflect a lack of effort, or a very hard-grading school? I don’t know that much about any of this, but with pretty high scores already, I would almost think it could be worse to have perfect scores with a GPA that doesn’t match that level, because it looks like your son is not working hard (and I am not saying that is the case). I would think schools would prefer that the ability and achievement be on a similar level, but, again, I don’t really know. If I were an admissions person, knowing nothing at all about a student (and, I repeat, I know nothing about your son,obviously), I would take a kid with high GPA and lower scores over one with high scores and relatively lower GPA.</p>
<p>That said, there are lots of great schools he can apply to, and with SAT’s in the 700’s he should do fairly well if he applies to those that fit him best. Merit aid can be quite “holistic” in the sense that schools try to induce a variety of kids to come, not just those who score really high or even those with the highest grades. For instance, sport or music talent. There may be some other way for your son to spend his time, other than raising scores that are already pretty stellar.</p>
<p>But, I have to say, none of my 3 likes the SAT’s in principle, let alone in practice. They did fine but would not keep taking them if scores were already “good enough.” They preferred to just keep living life as much as possible in senior year. Everyone is different.</p>
<p>I am in the dark when it comes to optimal strategies for college admissions, but common sense tells me that most ad-coms aren’t going to look at your son’s app and say, “Great kid. if only his math score was 30 points higher we could admit him.”</p>
<p>If he wants to take it again, I don’t seem any harm to it. What with choice and superscoring there’s little downside other than the money. I think the real question is whether the prep and stress time could be better used for college research, the essays or just doing something that he loves doing (unless he loves standardized tests. There seems to be quite a sub-culture out there that does.).</p>
<p>nightchef, my S has a simlilar problem. I am wondering if I should recommend him to take SAT again or focus more on school classes, especially English in his case. He showed improvement both in SAT CR and W scores and his English grade in school very recently. He got A minus in English in Q4 for the first time throughout his life and improved CR score from 670 in April to 730 in June. I tentavely think that he should focus on keeping this trend in his English class and take SAT again only if he is very confident in getting higher score in fall.
I think geek_mom’s comment is very thoughtful and helpful.</p>
<p>Since it easier to raise a Math subscore and the PSAT indicates the possibility of a higher score, your son has a very compelling reason to retake. And, fwiw, raising that Math subscore by 40-80 points SHOULD make a difference. </p>
<p>Considering the small investment of time and money, it is easier to retake in October than spend weeks or months agonizing over the value of retaking the test.</p>
most ad-coms aren’t going to look at your son’s app and say, “Great kid. if only his math score was 30 points higher we could admit him.”
[/quote]
This is absolutely true in my opinion, and borne out by the little bit I’ve been able to observe so far. From the sources I’ve read, though, at some rarefied places, if the scores don’t pass a certain threshold, adcoms might not get to an application until they’re already building the waitlist. If nightchef’s son aspires to rarefied places and can easily raise that math score to make the first cut of applications reviewed, he might find it worthwhile. YMMV, but that advice is sort of standard fare in books like this one:
[Amazon.com:</a> What It Really Takes to Get Into Ivy League and Other Highly Selective Colleges: Chuck Hughes: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Really-League-Highly-Selective-Colleges/dp/007141259X]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Really-League-Highly-Selective-Colleges/dp/007141259X)</p>
<p>So imho the answer to nightchef’s question depends on the son’s aspirations.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE=nightchef]
Are there schools that offer merit aid strictly (or even primarily) on the basis of test scores?
[/quote]
Yes, there are… maybe not many colleges of typical CC caliber, but we ran across several in the quest for safeties. Googling college Web sites can be a good starting point to find them.
[site:.edu</a> merit scholarship sat - Google Search](<a href=“site:.edu merit scholarship sat]site:.edu - Google Search”>site:.edu merit scholarship sat - Google Search)
Some of them vary the amount of merit aid depending on the scores. As to “strictly” vs “primarily” – YMMV – I know that many of the ones we turned up had requirements in test scores and rank or GPA. So again, the answer depends on what’s on his list.</p>
<p>Tests are pretty much zero stress for him, so that’s not an issue. I guess my only concern was the possibility that he might do somewhat better on the math but somewhat worse on the CR and writing–then might we not be worse off? I know about superscoring, but I thought there were still a lot of colleges that don’t do that. </p>
<p>The so-so GPA is kind of overdetermined: tough school (Boston Latin), organizational issues (which he may always struggle with to some extent), and motivational/confidence issues (which I think he is making good progress on). </p>
<p>Definitely no Caltechs or MITs in his future; his main interests are international relations, languages, and music. </p>
<p>Here’s our current college shopping list:</p>
<p>Tufts
Brandeis
George Washington
Skidmore
Bard
Boston U.
Hampshire
Clark U.
Goucher
UMass Amherst</p>
<p>Tufts and Brandeis are the only ones for which that math 720 isn’t well above the 75th percentile mark, and we know both of those are pretty high reaches.</p>
[QUOTE=<a href=“Tufts University”>Tufts University]
Please</a> note: There is no limit on how many testing results a student can submit. Applicants are free to meet the testing requirements with more than one of the options outlined above, as long as the requirements for a least one option are met in full. The Admissions Committee will use the highest individual scores for each section of the SAT Reasoning Test. [emphasis in original]
[/quote]
Tufts definitely does superscore.</p>
<p>Maybe some other folks can chime in on the other colleges.</p>
<p>Nightchef, fairly similar situation here, also a social sciences/IR guy, and right down to the organizational and confidence issues. Very competitive school, tough grading, 25% of the class is in selective admit full IB which pulls from the top 1-2% of a large public system. School does not rank, but it gives a chart of GPA ranges and the % of kids who hit them, so it is pretty easy to tell S is not in the top 10%, but he’ll have 12 APs and 7 IBs. </p>
<p>S2 took the SAT in March, got a 710 CR/700 M/790 W. CR on the PSAT was much higher, so he decided to take the June SAT to raise CR (and he thought a few more points on math would be nice, too, but not as likely). Math had a 7 in front of it – that satisfied him. Had the CR and W scores been reversed in March, he would have been one-and-done. He did the CR & M sections of one Blue Book test the week before the June exam as the only prep – he was too tired from three weeks of AP/IB exams, had four major projects due two days after the SAT and upcoming finals to do anything else. </p>
<p>We made sure he had a good dinner, a realxed evening and an early bedtime. He went up another 90 points – up 30 in CR and 60 in math. </p>
<p>We all felt strongly that he should not test in the fall of senior year. He has football practice, debate and insane IB assignments during that timeframe. His plan is to hunker down and get the best grades possible. </p>
<p>You know your S – does he need to prepare? Will he get a good night’s sleep before the exam? Will he stress about it? Is the time used to prepare more productively used to work on grades? These were all things S and we discussed in deciding whether to re-take in June vs. in October. Your S’s current SAT score is not going to take him off the table at the schools he is considering. A rising (or sustained) trend line on grades, however, could do him a lot more good than another 50-60 points.</p>
<p>I had a lower SAT score than your son my first time (730, 780, 650) and my second time it was higher (800, 780, 750). While that probably didn’t make a critical difference for me at the places I applied to, it may have if I had applied elsewhere.</p>
<p>The main reason I got a better score was simply focus. If your son is a good test taker (as the high scores and low stress suggest), getting that extra edge may be very possible. Also, taking the test had nothing to do with my grades, so it didn’t cost my GPA whatsoever. I just don’t see any risk, so there’s little point in not retaking.</p>
<p>Also, as mentioned above, good test scores can help with more than just admissions. My brother had a similar GPA and 1540/1600, and he ended up getting offered a full scholarship (at CSULB).</p>
<p>I think its a waste of time for your son to retake with those scores and his current list. The test scores are on the high end as it is for all of those schools. </p>
<p>Just my opinion, but I think that coming from Boston Latin, your son has an excellent chance of admissions at almost all of the schools on his list, other than Tufts & Brandeis (which probably get a ton of applicants from that school). But the reputation of the school will mean that there is some wiggle room on the GPA, especially if your son has a strong & rigorous courseload. It looks like you’ve identified a good set of match schools.</p>
<p>My initial reaction was, “Don’t bother to re-take the SAT because those scores are already plenty high enough, and getting them higher will only accentuate the disparity between SAT scores and GPA which adcoms may interpret as a motivation issue; better to put that energy into closing the gap by boosting GPA in the fall.” But then I saw that he goes to Boston Latin, and now I’m not so sure. That’s a great school. I don’t know how hard the grading is, but a kid who come out of Boston Latin with a respectable GPA and very strong SAT scores is going to be a catch for a lot of schools, including most of the schools on his list. I guess under the circumstances I’d say there’s nothing wrong with trying to boost that SAT Math score as long as it doesn’t come at the expense of school work in the fall. I think in the end a lot may turn on what’s in the teacher and GC recs. And essays, of course, But if his teachers and GC can put the GPA into perspective so it doesn’t look like it’s lagging his SAT scores, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape.</p>