Rethinking the Costs of Attending an Elite College (Wall Street Journal)

Parent Cafe
181

<p>Doc, if you have to sell a kidney to pay for it, it’s not worth it. If you’re deciding between a new Mercedes or next year’s tuition at Harvard, I’d say keep the old Mercedes and pay for Harvard. For most everyone else, it will involve other trade-offs, some easy and some hard. I would not have sacrificed my retirement to pay for college I’ve got too many elderly family members who thought that selling the family house would be an adequate cash cushion for their retirement years and have now run out the clock.</p>

<p>For us, it was worth it. We had kids when we were relatively young, we’ve always had two paychecks and made lifestyle trade off’s that other people thought were insane but worked for us; we’ve been healthy so far and by the time the kids were teenagers we had life insurance, a modest mortgage payment easily covered by one salary, etc. I took a two week maternity leave so I wouldn’t sacrifice a promotion I’d worked hard for. Maybe I was insane… but getting financially secure early on made so many risky moves possible later.</p>

<p>So it made sense for us. I’ve got a cousin with a chronic illness- she’s got a stable income for now but she’s one episode away from some scary health and financial stuff… so for her, the $200K for prestige wasn’t worth the stress. And I’ve got friends who would rather have a gorgeous house, new kitchen, drive nice cars, and go skiing every February (or some of the above) and so they can’t fathom how we could ever afford college given our somewhat more modest circumstances. To each his own.</p>

<p>I know the kids in these families- and some of them, to be callous, are just not worth sacrificing $200K for. The kids like to party hearty, and so I can respect a parent deciding that if the kid is majoring in beer pong and hooking up, he can do it on the cheap. Some of the kids were indifferent HS students, have never read a book that wasn’t assigned, couldn’t find India on a map if you gave them a week’s head start, and have no interest in anything besides shopping and downloading music for free. So yeah, I get that the parents aren’t standing in line to fork over big bucks for the kid to attend Elite/Expensive U. And some of the kids are probably worth investing in… but mom and dad are too invested in their current consumption to even consider it.</p>

<p>There are thousands of kids getting fabulous educations at State U’s and no-name colleges and “I’ve never hearda U U” all over the country. Many of them will go on to distinguish themselves in their fields. So it’s not like it’s “pay $200K or your kid will never get off the couch”. </p>

<p>But for some people, the trade-offs are worth it. It was for us.</p>

182

<p>boneyard: “…upper middle class families these days have been getting the back of the hand from so-called elite private schools.”</p>

<p>I strongly disagree. My daughter, who is NOT a top athlete or scholar, will be attending Harvard in September. Based upon our income – which is less then 180K – her cost of attendance (tuition, room, board & fees) is thousands less than sending her to any of our in-state school’s.</p>

183

<p>“I strongly disagree. My daughter, who is NOT a top athlete or scholar, will be attending Harvard in September. Based upon our income – which is less then 180K – her cost of attendance (tuition, room, board & fees) is thousands less than sending her to any of our in-state school’s.”</p>

<p>It all depends on where you believe upper middle class income stops.</p>

184

<p>“It all depends on where you believe upper middle class income stops.”</p>

<p>According to the 2007 U.S. Census Bureau statistics, only 4% of U.S. families make over 200K. So, based upon the data, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that the upper middle income bracket you refer to hovers somewhere around 200K.</p>

<p>[United</a> States - Income in the Past 12 Months (In 2007 Inflation-Adjusted Dollars)](<a href=“http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/STTable?_bm=y&-qr_name=ACS_2007_1YR_G00_S1901&-geo_id=01000US&-ds_name=ACS_2007_1YR_G00_&-_lang=en&-redoLog=false]United”>http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/STTable?_bm=y&-qr_name=ACS_2007_1YR_G00_S1901&-geo_id=01000US&-ds_name=ACS_2007_1YR_G00_&-_lang=en&-redoLog=false)</p>

185

<p>^It also depends on the schools. The cost of the “elite privates” (even with a lot of financial aid) were about double the price of our state school.</p>

186

<p>“It also depends on the schools.”</p>

<p>Agreed. Although many colleges say they meet 100% of financial need, every college has a different formula for figuring a family’s need based upon the largeness of their endowment.</p>

187

<p>“According to the 2007 U.S. Census Bureau statistics, only 4% of U.S. families make over 200K. So, based upon the data, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that the upper middle income bracket you refer to hovers somewhere around 200K.”</p>

<p>At which point the elites charge full tuition and board.</p>

188

<p>mantori.suzuki,
“But at my mid-sized state university I was one of the best, got lots of individual attention from my professors, special projects, etc. It prepared me well for the next level”</p>

<p>-Yes. I take it further. D discovered that she could be a true leader, the one who can speaks in front of crowd with ease, the one who can judge others with repect, in other words she discovered new talents in herself and new level of confidence that yes, will help her a lot for the next level. She has been truly recognized and given credits. I am not sure at all that she would have a chance to have these experiences at elite school.</p>

189

<p>I find it interesting that the article asserts that no university competes for based on cost. This is one of the most patently untrue things about college education. The colleges simply have the advantage of being able to calculate what you might be able to pay, and can individually compete in cost over each student, which gives them a leg up on normal retailers, who must set a cost that everyone pays and hope that enough are willing to pay the cost for them to make a profit. </p>

<p>The sticker on each one is about the same, but a professor at a local private (religious) university told me that everyone, no matter how rich or poor, gets about a third of the costs cut right off the top in aid. This lets them seem like they are more generous than other schools, when they never actually make their calculations assuming anyone (let alone everyone) pays sticker price.</p>

<p>I personally feel that I would rather be in an environment of people as smart or smarter than me, and I feel that I would benefit more from it, but this os not the case fo everyone, or even most people. In the end I think it is a personal choice that each person has to make as to what they value in life.</p>

190

<p>“The sticker on each one is about the same, but a professor at a local private (religious) university told me that everyone, no matter how rich or poor, gets about a third of the costs cut right off the top in aid. This lets them seem like they are more generous than other schools, when they never actually make their calculations assuming anyone (let alone everyone) pays sticker price.”</p>

<p>I’d like to know the school where no one pays sticker price. I’d expect lots of people pay sticker price.</p>

191

<p>I’ve heard the same thing as lordofnarf about a few schools, that no one pays full price. When I think about all of the ways colleges manipulate the system to their advantage, it’s not hard to believe that some would inflate the cost of attendance and then offer generous “discounts” across the board.</p>

192

<p>As someone whose income is above $200k (but not by a whole lot), I have no problem paying full fare for two kids–and have done so. I did not feel that we were getting the back of the hand. I’m certain my kids could have received merit aid at colleges other than the ones they attended, but we chose to pay full fare so they could attend the colleges they chose. I don’t get upper-middle class whining.</p>

193

<p>I understand the reasoning behind the policies - son clearly enjoys having bright students from all income levels at his college. But the current model is really dysfunctional. By reducing or eliminating the cost for about 60 percent of its students, Harvard is inevitably driving up the cost for the other 40 percent - many of whom have families without accumulated wealth, just high and often very precarious incomes at a time in life with many economic pressures weighing (health, retirement, other children to educate).</p>

<p>This is pretty much the model being proposed for health care right now. This time, to DH and my amazement, we are actually below the line of pain, would apparently not be in that group that will foot the majority of the bill for the rest of us. Have to say, the psychology in this is very intense. My first gut reaction was “Yeah! That’s only right. Let the rich pay for me!” </p>

<p>I don’t think this brings out the best in many of us.</p>

194

<p>There is no evidence that Harvard is doing that. Its full fare is no different from full fare at colleges that give out little financial aid. And it’s not higher than OOS fare at top publics.
Berkeley OOS (2009-2010): $~51k.
Harvard COA:(2009-2010): $52k.
Vanderbilt COA (2008-2009): $50k</p>

<p>I’m using Vanderbilt as an example of a non-Harvard private university rather than as an example of a college with limited financial aid (I known Vandy gives great merit aid, but have no knowledge of its financial aid policy).</p>

195

<p>Hmmm . . . not sure what your getting at, Marite.</p>

<p>Are you suggesting that the proliferation of FA does not drive up the cost to attend for full freight students? I don’t know the inner workings of Harvard or any college’s budgetary breakdown. But I would find this notion somewhat hard to believe.</p>

<p>What relevance do Berkeley and Harvard have in terms of charging about the same full-freight cost? These schools also offer FA (although not as much) and also have endowments (although not as big). I’m not singling out Harvard as unique amongst all universities. I’m using it to illustrate the general trend.</p>

<p>And put me down as supportive of the inclusion of all income classes attending these schools. I’m merely saying the present model is dysfunctional.</p>

196

<p>I am in full agreement with Sewhappy - the system is dysfunctional. Many families have worked up to a income of 200K after making a lot less for many years.Many of these same families live in high cost areas (200K in north jersey is a LOT less than 200K in Iowa). Add to that those families who pay for their own healthcare and fund their own retirement and you got a situation that’s not quite fair. This isn’t whining. It’s just reality.<br>
We have neighbors who are both teachers. Given what I know about salaries around here, they make about 160K combined, have full (cheap) health insurance, a generous pension waiting for them at age 55, and summers off. They have a kid going to Harvard next year and they tell me they are paying less than parents of kids who are attending our flaghip state school. I’m really happy for them…but wow…it’s not like they need that kind of help!<br>
And yes Vandy does give great merit aid…but you have to be way above their typical numbers to get it. It’s how they steal away the Harvard students…with full ride packages.</p>

197

<p>The point I am making is that Harvard’s FA policy is not what is driving its COA for full-freight families. In fact, we eliminated Berkeley from consideration after including travel costs because it would have been more rather than less expensive for S to attend Berkeley, and there were other factors (its huge size, the rumored difficulty of getting into required classes) that militated against it. </p>

<p>I realize that all colleges provide finaid, but the Harvard policy of providing aid to families with income up to $180k surely is not universal? But that is what you claimed to be driving its COA. How does one then explain the Berkeley COA or other colleges’ COA? </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>In fact, Harvard depends less on tuition income than other institutions (hence its current crisis as its endowment income has plummeted). A college that depends on tuition return is more likely to charge more. This is the case for Sarah Lawrence, whose COA last year was over $52k.</p>

198

<p>So, toneranger, why blame Harvard for a system that is dysfunctional across the board?</p>

<p>I live in a high cost area, and when I started work, my salary was a princely $17k, my H’s not a great deal more. I still don’t get upper middle class whining.</p>

199

<p>For me, the fundamental flaw in the current model employed by schools like Harvard that are expensive, elite AND have large (albeit diminished endowments) is the hypocracy of viewing the student as a child when it comes to charging a tuition. These are not children. These are adults in the eyes of the world who can vote, drive, die in Iraq and choose not to share any information about their lives with their parents. Yet these universities essentially infantalize these students when it comes to finances by insisting that the very enormous detail of exactly what they have to pay to attend is completely defined in terms of their parents income. What other facet of life in our society ties an 18-year-old to their parent’s income bracket? </p>

<p>The college applicants in the least enviable positon are those bright and talented enough to be accepted at schools like Harvard but with prosperous parents who simply refuse to pay. Where is the concern for them?</p>

200

<p>sewhappy, I will save my anguish for the bright and talented kids with prosperous parents once our educational system has fixed the plight of the bright and talented kids trapped in sub-par public schools where kids graduate at age 18 with a fifth grade reading ability (or drop out before they graduate). Or the plight of the bright and talented kid who can’t attend college at all because his earnings as a sandwich maker at Subway is what buys the family’s food each month.</p>

<p>You get my point. You’re not seriously suggesting that society or the taxpayers or even Harvard’s endowment should go to subsidizing the wealthy who refuse to pay for their kids education??? Boo hoo. Your parents earn $300K per year and choose to spend it on cruises and fur coats and that becomes Harvard’s problem?</p>