Reverse chance my daughter for LACs

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

[Note: I posted some of this in a separate thread (http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/2000734-possible-to-get-into-top-liberal-arts-college-p1.html) about 8 months ago, but now have a lot more updated stats and have educated myself a lot more on the process.]

Academics: She just finished her 1st semester junior year. GPA: UW = 3.75/4.00. I think her weighted GPA = 4.13. Her school doesn’t weigh grades, so I calculated it by adding 0.5 to any class that had “Honors” in the name and 1.0 for any AP classes. If I add 1.0 for all Honors/AP classes, her weighted GPA = 4.33. Her GPA has shown an upward trend. She got a 3.57 UW her first semester and a 3.88 UW the most recent semester. Each semester has been equal to or better than the previous one. On a percentile basis, I believe her GPA puts her just at the top 20%. According to her guidance counselor, in prior years the cutoff for the top 10% was 3.86 and top 20% was 3.75. Again, all unweighted.

She’s completed 2 AP classes so far (AP Japanese and AP World History) and got 5 on both. She’s enrolled in AP Environmental Science, AP Lang, and AP Microeconomics (1 semester only). Next year she will be taking a few more APs: Math (either AP Stats or Calc AB), AP Gov, AP Psych, and AP Lit. When all is said and done, by the end of high school she will have completed 9 AP courses. She’s also completed Honors Physics, Honors Chemistry, and Honors Bio. (She’s not allowed to take the AP version of those courses without completing either the regular or honors version first.) The school was ranked #13 among public schools in Washington state.

One area that I fear we may have gotten some bad advice on was foreign language. She’s not a native Japanese speaker, but her mother (my wife) is Japanese, so my daughter went to Saturday Japanese school all throughout elementary school. As a high school freshman, she took AP Japanese and passed out of the district’s foreign language requirements. This enabled her to take multiple electives she otherwise wouldn’t have been able to (forensic science, personal finance, digital graphics, etc.), but I’m not sure if colleges will ding her for not taking on a completely new foreign language. Her school only has 6 periods/day, so if she had taken an foreign language every year, she’d only have 1 extra period for electives.

Demographics: Half Caucasian/half Japanese female from Washington State suburbs. We will not qualify for financial aid as my income and assets put my expected contribution over the standard annual costs. (As terrible as it sounds, I’m hoping that will give her a boost at schools that don’t have need blind admissions.)

Standardized test scores:

  • 35 on the ACT. She got 36 for Science, 35 for everything else. She only just got the preliminary results back, but they don’t include the writing portion. This isn’t superscored - she only took it once.
  • 1460 (770V, 690M) on the SAT. I think she’ll just submit the ACT score.

ECs:

  • Founder and president of the ACLU club at her school - now with 20 members. She also attended the ACLU Summer Institute in DC last summer.
  • Drama tech - she’s in charge of all of the audio for the school plays/musics. I think her title is sound designer.
  • Volunteer tutor at the local library on Saturdays
  • A bunch of other stuff like Model UN, SAGA, Girl scouts (since kindergarten!), has played piano since kindergarten, but not at a competition winning level.
  • JSA - Took a 3-week class on Media & Politics through JSA at Georgetown. (It was pay to play, but she got school credit.) She might take another class this summer.

A couple other random facts:

  • She required emergency brain surgery in 7th grade that resulted in her missing half of the school year. During that time (about 6 months), she was constantly dizzy and nauseous and couldn’t walk. She’s now fully recovered. Not sure if she’ll choose to write about it in her essay.
  • I went to Oberlin as did her aunt and uncle (both by marriage), so Oberlin will definitely be on her short list.
  • For now she’s saying she wants to major in PoliSci or Psych, but she’s ultimately undecided. She doesn’t plan on going into STEM.

We just got back from visiting a bunch of NE LACs: Colby, Bates, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, Mount Holyoke, Amherst, and Haverford. She barely paid attention to the Amherst tour since she assumed it was way out of her league. (This was before she saw that she had gotten a 35 on the ACT. Not sure how much that affects things.) The good thing is that she liked all of them, so she won’t have any crushing disappointment about not getting into any one in particular. Of those schools, she said she liked Bowdoin the best, but she was worried about living in a frozen wasteland for 4 years. :slight_smile: Last year we visited Claremont McKenna, Scripps, Occidental, and USC. Of those, she liked Scripps the most. USC was way too big and way too sports-focused for her. We didn’t get too good of a sense of CMK since it was uncharacteristically pour rain that day and we were all trying to rush through the tour. I got the sense it was too sporty and competitive, but I could be wrong.

Her primary considerations for what she wants are:

  • Strong emphasis on undergraduate education - no classes taught by TAs
  • Intellectually motivated classmates that she can have interesting discussions with over lunch, etc. but not hyper-competitive (the thing she liked most about Bowdoin was how friendly the students were toward her)
  • Preferred de-emphasis on sports - she doesn’t want to be in a culture that elevates athletes over non-
  • Strong theater program - she doesn’t plan on majoring in it but she’d like to be active in it doing tech

That’s a huge brain dump, but I’ll just throw out a few specific questions, though I’d just like to hear people’s thoughts about what schools she may want to consider that aren’t on her radar.

  1. How much does that 35 on her ACT help her? Does it mean that everything that was a high match now becomes a match, and everything that was a reach becomes a high match, etc.?
  2. I always thought of Brown as being kind of an Ivy League LAC, but I assumed she wouldn't have a chance. Now with the 35, should she seriously look into that?
  3. What LACs would you classify for her as reach, high match, match, low match, safety? I was thinking:

Reach: Brown, Pomona, Williams, Amherst
High match: Bowdoin, CMK
Match: Wesleyan, Colby, Bates, Scripps, Haverford
Low match: Mount Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, Occidental
Safety: Oberlin (mostly b/c of her legacy status)

2

I think for female applicants, all the co-ed LACs would have to be moved up a notch. So, IMO, it would look more like this:

Reach: Brown, Pomona, Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, CMK
High match: Wesleyan, Colby, Bates, Haverford
Match: Scripps
Low match: Mount Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, Occidental
Safety: Oberlin (mostly b/c of her legacy status)

3

Man, that’s what I had them listed as before she got her 35. :slight_smile: Maybe I was too optimistic!

4

While Oberlin does consider “relation with alumnus”, it also considers “level of applicant’s interest”, so be careful of treating it as a last-choice safety.

https://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1778

5

With respect to your daughter’s emergency brain surgery while in 7th grade, I do not think that is a good topic since it happened so many years ago.

(I am not unsympathetic as my nephew had emergency brain surgery between his junior & senior years. I recommended that as an essay topic because he did not take the hardest course schedule & his numbers were okay–3.75 GPA & 1450 SAT–to explain his underperformance. They chose instead to write about being an Eagle Scout & his results were disastrous despite being an URM & National Hispanic Scholar & a double legacy. And he didn’t even apply to any super selective schools beyond one at which he was a double legacy & in-state for tuition purposes.)

I recite my relative’s case to show how important an essay topic can be when applying to ultra-selective colleges & universities (which he did not).

It probably was a mistake to forego further foreign language study.

6

Yes, it’s a risk if she has only one year of foreign lang, for colleges that ask for 2-4 years, then some non rigorous electives replacing that, with lower rigor in science, an AP list with psych, stats, APES.

For poli sci, ACLU is good. But see if she can add something in local politics, govt, or advocacy (experience with local orgs, some role.)

Don’t try to fudge a W gpa. Different hs use different schemes. There is no standard. And top adcoms will look at the transcript, see rigor and grades. The 3.75 means grades lower than A. It will matter what courses.

No, the 35 won’t tip at colleges that are fiercely holistic. Whether she’s a high match or match at Wes, Colby, Bates, Haverford or Scripps will depend on what comes across in her app and supps. And that drpends on the understanding you and she form of what these colleges want to see. Try to learn that.

7

“While Oberlin does consider “relation with alumnus”, it also considers “level of applicant’s interest”, so be careful of treating it as a last-choice safety.”

Of course. I think she’ll be able to talk effectively about why she’s interested in Oberlin with specific examples. She won’t be applying there ED, though, so she’d be in with the general applicant pool.

8

Some schools put more weight on course rigor and grades – the ACT score opens the door, but then they look at grades, ECs, teacher recs, and the essays. At Pomona they told us, “we should only see vowels on your transcript” my son just started laughing out loud! Ifyour daughter’s school has a good college counselor, take a meeting with them. They know what kids from their school have gotten in to top schools and what those schools look for in a student.

9

It is interesting that OP listed 15 prospective schools–14 LACs & one National University–as my impression after reading her resume was that this is a person who needs to apply to a large number (approx. 16) of schools since her ACT is outstanding but foreign language & ECs are not so strong, no sports/athletics, undecided major/career & GPA is in need of scrutiny.

10

@Publisher - That’s scary to think that someone with your nephew’s stats and achievements was unable to get into even a non-ultra-selective university… :-<

11

If your daughter would like an academic merit scholarship, then Davidson College might be worth a look. Unfortunately, it might require applying ED I or ED II.

Gorgeous setting. Strong academics, but definitely leans conservative.

12

It can hang on the app. The big essay isnt the place to explain details or ask for other consideration. It’s meant to show the qualities, attributes, and thinking the school looks for, wrapped in some nice narrative.

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@dia26: He was waitlisted, then admitted, to the state flagship.

His dad is reluctant to take advice from anyone. He is very successful financially & scored a perfect 1600 on the SATs when that meant something & a perfect 800 on the GMAT. All he cared about was cost.

So my nephew was admitted to large state universities which admit over 60% of all applicants. Waitlisted, then admitted to state flagship which admits about 40%.

14

In my opinion, the weakness was in his choice of essays.

15

“Yes, it’s a high risk if she has only one year of foreign lang, for colleges that ask for 2-4 years, then some non rigorous electives replacing that, with lower rigor in science, an AP list with psych, stats, APES.”

Yeah, I was worried about that. The only other languages offered were French and Spanish, and she wasn’t really interested in those. She was hoping that the AP Japanese would satisfy those colleges’ requirements. FWIW, I think she’s leaning more toward taking AP Calculus next year instead of Stats.

“For poli sci, ACLU is good. But see if she can add something in local politics, govt, or advocacy (experience with local orgs, some role.)”

One of the members of her ACLU club is the son of our state representative. She is going to ask that representative if she can intern with her over the summer.

“Don’t try to fudge a W gpa. Different hs use different schemes. There is no standard. And top adcoms will look at the transcript, see rigor and grades. The 3.75 means grades lower than A. It will matter what courses.”

I was just trying to give a sense of what her GPA would mean in context. Her full course list is:

Freshman year: AP Japanese, Honors English 9, Honors Algebra II, Honors Chemistry, Honors Physics, Honors World History, Art I, Drama, Geometry (Some notes: Geometry was an online course over the summer to qualify for Honors Alg. II. Honors Chemistry and Honors Physics were one semester each. This was set up this way so that honors students could move into more advanced science classes later if they wanted to.)

Sophomore: Honors English 10, Algebra III, Honors Bio, AP World History, Personal Finance (1 semester), Art 2 (1 semester), PE (2 semesters), Honors Media & Politics (Honor M&P was a summer program offered by JSA. Algebra III was not the more advanced math option. Math Analysis would have been the more advanced one. Other than that and her electives, all of her classes were the most advanced available.)

Junior: AP Lang, Foundations of Calculus, APES, US History, AP Micro (1 semester), Digital graphics (1 semester), Forensic Science (1 semester), PE (1 semester) - Only class she could have opted to go more advanced on was US History. I get your point that she could have also chosen a more challenging science than APES, since she technically was qualified to take AP Bio, AP Chem, or AP Physics.

Senior (plan): AP Lit, AP Calc AB, AP Psych, AP Gov, Health (1 semester), Forensic Science II (1 semester) + 2 more courses that I can’t recall offhand

16

“Gorgeous setting. Strong academics, but definitely leans conservative.” - She’d be miserable in a conservative setting! :smiley:

17

I think she has a great list, but I would consider Vassar as well. I believe some schools consider American Sign Language and it is often taught at community colleges. Maybe she could get a couple of semesters in that way? And, from what I understand, it can be a fun class.

18

Consider the College of William & Mary. Optional program to split time with St. Andrews in Scotland if interested in International Affairs study.

19

Too many long odds schools in that prospective list.

To see what you are up against at Williams, for example, google “Eph blog how admissions works at Williams” (the TOS on CC prevents embedding a link to that site). Also, the lack of athletics will be a problem at Williams (admissions formula is AR2 + something athletic + something else special). Ditto at Amherst. I would delete both of those schools from your list.

Have at least one school on your list where the school has a large number of seats to fill. Yes, I know, not what she wants. But places like Colby are now getting over 10,000 RD applications to fill ~250 RD seats. Can anyone really consider that to be a match? I don’t–unless you apply to Colby ED. Then it’s a match. Do the RD math on how many applications vs how many RD seats are available at each school on your list. Then you will see why you do not want to have a college list only of LACs (even though they are superior education choices).

20

I fear that not having language classes may negatively impact her admissions chances. While her high school (and perhaps some colleges) might accept AP credit in lieu of coursework (has she taken the SAT Subject test as well?), most will want to see at least 2 or 3 years language study. They will not be impressed her having taken additional electives.

If she’s got Honors physics/biology/chemistry and APES, she would be much better advised to not take another science – especially if she’s not planning on studying a STEM field.

How has she spent her summers and what is she planning to do this summer? Perhaps taking an advanced Japanese college course or two through dual enrollment might help. How far are you from the University of Washington? They have some intensive summer programs in Japanese. Washington State also has some classes, but I didn’t see anything over the summer. Perhaps she can take a class in the fall? If she’s taking Calc AB, AP Gov, AP Psych, and AP Lit, she can take one or two classes through dual enrollment.

https://asian.washington.edu/summer-study

https://www.washington.edu/students/timeschd/SUM2018/japanese.html

The other option might be to look into online college classes. Some possibilities include:

Oregon State and Mesa Community College (Arizona, I believe) offer some online Japanese classes:

http://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/soc/ecatalog/ecoursedetail.htm?subject=JPN&coursenumber=199&termcode=all

https://www.mesacc.edu/programs/japanese

And BYU has an independent (online) study program that includes Japanese literature:

https://is.byu.edu/search/search_by_page/japanese

They also offer teacher-led online high school courses:

https://is.byu.edu/site/courses/index.cfm?school=hs#course=japanese|

Another option might be immersive summer study in Japan.

Or, if she wanted to start another language, an immersive summer course might be the way to go, and she can follow it up in the fall.

As for math, I would also recommend AP Calc AB over AP Stats as it is more widely accepted (and expected) for top schools.

As for admissions to some of these LACs, demonstrated interest is really important. I know someone who had gotten into a number of top 10 schools that was rejected from Scripps because they assumed they were her safety (which they were; the Adcom basically said, “you never visited (we’re in SoCal), you hadn’t interviewed, and you never opened any of our emails.” Remember, Big Brother IS watching you. And he wants to feel the love. (Look up “Tufts syndrome.”)

With top test scores (esp. “one and done” you don’t want to hurt her admissions chances by not having the minimum requirements (and 2-3 years of FL is generally considered a minimum).