<p>My daughter is a freshman at a prestigious private university on the East Coast. She has no interest in math and sciences, but excels in writing (perfect SAT II score in English even though it's not her native language, received silver medal for excellence in English at graduation from a highly rated high school) and languages (fluent in Russian and Spanish), as well as singing, drama, and a range of artistic activities. She doesn't seem to have an interest in a teaching career. She is thinking about majoring in International Relations, however I cannot think of a reasonable carreer path for her to pursue with such a major considering that she is not of Madeleine Albright type. We are investing a lot money in her education and would like her to be able to make a decent living while doing things that she likes.
I know that many on this board have expressed an opinion that kids should study whatever they want in college. This might be good for some, who don't have to worry much about earning their living after college, but I know that my daughter will have to support herself when she graduates, and I would hate to see four years and tens (even hundreds) of thousands of dollars spent on courses that turn out to be of no use in her professional life. Any ideas?</p>
<p>i am not a parent and i haven't graduated yet.. but i think that if she wants to major in international relations, and is fluent in three languages.. that she could make a lot of money doing that. I don't think she'd have much of a problem finding a job, but like i said, i haven't been through this yet :)</p>
<p>Mamochka:
I am not a parent but I have graduated and are very familiar with IR major who are succesful, and I think you should let her decide.
IR majors can really, really make a living and if she speaks three languages she will have a lot of advantages over others. And you would be amazed to know how many diplomats are not the Albright type. Besides IR also deals with NGO'S, International Economy, etc. A lot of consulting companies seek IR majors who earn a lot (Check their webages).
Moreover, if you pushed her to study something she doesn't really like she would probably be unhappy (I know some cases of parents pushing their kids to change majors for $ reasons who ended up being bitter and unhappy for that, and I know a couple who ended up doing what they wanted in the beginning even if they majored in something else). She is an adult woman, don't forget that.
At the end it is your choice, but I do think you should not intervene in her career choice. Maybe you should try to contact someone who majored in IR to answer your doubts. Anyway, I wish you both the best.</p>
<p>A Bachelor's degree in International Relations, like other liberal arts degrees, does not give you entry into a specific field. It does, instead, provide you with a broad knowledge base that you can use to excel in a variety of occupations. These occupations include, among others: </p>
<ul>
<li>Archivist </li>
<li>Demographer </li>
<li>Diplomat </li>
<li>Foreign Affairs Analyst </li>
<li>Foreign Affairs Specialist </li>
<li>Foreign Service Officer </li>
<li>Immigration Specialist </li>
<li>Intelligence Specialist </li>
<li>Journalist </li>
<li>Language Specialist </li>
<li>Market Research Analyst </li>
</ul>
<p>For what it is worth, not everyone agrees that our world would be a better place with Madeleine Albright's clones.</p>
<p>Law school (or business school).</p>
<p>I know three people who have a bachelors degree from a public liberal arts college.
One is executive director of a national PAC/think tank ( I don't really know how to describe it), one is a regional executive director of a different group ( ok he also has a MPA) and one was head of OSHA and is now head of the state investment board.
I also know others who got very good jobs just with their BA's although eventually they did go for further education.
A BA gets you in work force, but I think that you need to be in th ework force to decide what direction you want to continue.</p>
<p>I don't think there are many people on this board who don't think they're kids will need to make a living when they graduate--mine sure will, but I still counsel them to study what they want. My D just graduated with a degree in government from a "prestigious" LAC. she doesn't know what she wants to be yet, but she's making enough money to live on while canvassing for an environmental organization. Is it what she wants to do for the rest of her life? Probably not. She'll firure it out, but she's doing meaningful work meanwhile, and making some money. We teach our kids not to need a lot of "stuff", so making big bucks is not a priority around here.</p>
<p>mamochka, International business is a fairly amorphous field that includes everything from finance to fashion to hospitality. These jobs can be lucrative and challenging and a BA from a good school and strong communication skills are perfect prerequisites. Talent in language other than English is a plus. The US Government employs thousands of people in the US and overseas, in the State Department, Commerce, CIA etc. In general government jobs are less well paid than the private sector, but can be fascinating work. Same for NGO's if you're more altruistically inclined. </p>
<p>The simplest path is to start at the bottom in a Fortune 500 company that appeals and work your way up through the ranks. That's pretty much what I did and I have never, never regretted studying art history and English literature instead of business. Top executives and diplomats are for the most part educated, interesting people. I can't stress enough how part of getting ahead is being able to interact intelligently at a dinner party as well as at the office.</p>
<p>The question is where to start? If your daughter's college is anything like my son's they have a well developed career counseling service. Although freshman year is a bit early to be stressing, it may put every one's mind to rest if you would log on to your daughter's college website and see what they offer in the way of job placement. My guess is you'll be relieved.</p>
<p>I would like to thank everyone who posted here for giving some reassurance to a high school senior who is in a very similar position to mamochka's daughter. I'm also very much oriented towards the humanities (I even speak the same three languages :) ), and I am interested in international relations. However, I have recently been exerienceing considerable anxiety over the prosptects of finding a career with such a major. I don't want to discover, upon graduating from college, that I cannot find reasonable employment (at which point I'll probably be in considerable debt). However, the last thing I would want to do in life is to waste my best years in a job I loathe, even if that job would bring me a significant income. My parents have been feeding me "horror stories" about English and History majors who have had no choice but to become insurance salespeople and casheers, so I again thank you for raising my spirits.</p>
<p>Since my husband and I did not attend an LAC/study liberal arts per se, the choices our sons are making are not causing us worry so much as they are making us feel that we need to help the boys explore opportunities and possibilities throughout their college experiences. I am very eager for them to have internship exposures, summer work opportunities in diverse fields, etc. This was a factor in determining college choices, in fact- looking for LAC's, in particular, which focused on this. The goal is not to translate the liberal arts education into a pre-professional one, the goal is to continue expanding horizons- while maintaining a check with reality.</p>
<p>One of the interesting kids we met while touring colleges was in an essentially self designed major related to "development work"- ultimately looking at the work done by NGO's, US AID, etc.. I thought it noteworthy that she chose a summer job in her college admissions office and when asked why she said, she wanted to be close to home and family. I thought this didn't really resonate clearly. Kids who want to do the type of work she thinks she wants to do should be eager to get out there and get their feet wet. Of course, there might have been particulars of her situation she hadn't really revealed. </p>
<p>International relations is obviously a popular major nowadays. However, the US foreign service is having trouble filling spots for locations in third world countries, etc, etc. I remember an article in the Washington Post 2 years ago and the applicants to foreign service listed Canada, UK and France as their preferred assignments.</p>
<p>Kids who major in IR have the world at their feet, literally, but I think summer and internship opportunities need to be found which help them to see if they really want the world, or only the affluent part of it!</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for sharing thoughts on this issue. </p>
<p>I have no doubts that there are many liberal arts graduates out there who eventually made their way to the top of the corporate ladder or found other fulfilling roles elsewhere. However, as Xiggi pointed out, a degree in liberal arts does not give you entry into a specific field, whereas a degree in engineering or life sciences to give just an example certainly does. </p>
<p>Momrath, starting at the bottom in a Fortune 500 company and working your way up through the ranks is certainly an option, but wouldn't it be easier if one already had some knowledge of the business that company is in? I myself am a liberal arts graduate who opted to change career at the age of forty after finding it hardly possible to support a family while working for a non-profit. Now in high-tech, I only wish I had a more suitable academic background. BTW, I see many interesting and knowledgeable people around me who can interact intelligently even though they are not liberal arts graduates. I also see a lot of communications/psychology/other liberal arts majors working in Administrative Assistant positions for years and never making their way to anything else, which brings me to my next question: </p>
<p>In this thread, we have heard only from people who strongly support liberal arts education even when after graduation kids still don't know what they want to be. Is there anyone out there who would like to share a different kind of story?</p>
<p>Just trying to look at the problem from both sides and hope no one is offended.</p>
<p>No one is offended (I am not, and I hope you aren't) but don't you think that if all of us agree we could have a point?</p>
<p>Mamochka, problem with trying to catch the market by studying something useful is that the job market can change a lot while your daughter is in college. I entered college in the 70's; by the time I finished grad school (a very unpractical undergrad major and an MBA) the US was deep in recession, interest rates were 12% and companies were not expanding the way they had been when I started my education. </p>
<p>I see my neighbors kids with BS degrees in computer science from good schools working for minimum wage at Staples and Kinko's.... the good IT jobs seem to have vanished to India. I see kids with degrees in finance and accounting take jobs that barely require a college degree-- the last recession seems to have wiped out a lot of entry level jobs in those fields. I've also written about the neighbor's child with a JD from Harvard who while not unemployed, never seems to have had a decent job in the law (lots of temping at good firms; some "contract" work at middling firms, a fulltime job for a not-for-profit that had no benefits) who is now working as a substitute teacher while she gets her teaching certification (having a law degree from Harvard is not a Master's degree apparently... so she's taking Classroom Pedagogy and Principles of Physical Education).</p>
<p>No guarantees in life, sadly. The greatest gift you can give a college age kid is the knowledge that investing in themselves is the only investment that will pay out for a lifetime.... and that with the ability to think and communicate (which your daughter seems to have) they will probably find a good and interesting path regardless of the road they take....</p>
<p>So, let me see - English major here. Taught college - in Iran and the U.S. Media relations director for a human rights agency. Founded a successful publishing house, and edited more than a hundred titles. Wrote or edited almost a dozen of my own. Founded a non-profit foundation. Raised money to build houses in India. Senior policy analyst for the state board of health (no public health experience whatsoever, other than editing books on AIDS in the Third World). Senior planner for the state on alcohol/drug treatment issues (no experience whatsoever.). Semi-professional storyteller. Homeschooling and education lecturer. Magazine columnist. Never started at the bottom. </p>
<p>It will be different for my kids. Maybe harder. Maybe easier. Who knows?</p>
<p>When I grow up, I want to be a pixie.</p>
<p>Lets differentiate between a liberal arts education and one's major. I had a liberal arts education and graduated with a BA in math and computer science. I agree with the other posters that it is impossible to predict what will lead to a satisfying career (and life?). I loved math and by a fortuitous choice, landed in computers. IMO, a balance of what you love with an eye to practical matters is a wise path. It needn't be an either or choice. I started studying film and literature, and switched to math in my 2nd year, and added computer science in my 3rd year.</p>
<p>I am mamochka's daughter. I want to say that obviously I recognize that majors such as engineering or pre-med establish a definite career. And I wish I were interested in them. But I'm not - at all - and I find it difficult to believe that if one hates math and science, then life is surely limited by the amount of choices (or, apparently, lack thereof). Like someone already said, of course there are no guarantees in life. </p>
<p>I'm going to major in IR and minor in something like mass media/communications. If I were to major REALLY in something I TRULY liked, it would be Spanish. Or history. Or graphic design. Or something equally "without true economic potential". (I don't want to teach.) Where would I like to work? I'd like to work in the publishing industry with some kind of international focus because I love languages and traveling. Translations, maybe. I'm not quite certain yet. Well, I chose IR because it's more interactive and appears to be more versatile and with greater possibilities. For me it IS, essentially, a version of that balance between "interest" and "use". I studied economics my first semester because it's required for IR. I HATE economics but went through with it because it's useful to know. I know that other concepts in IR will be much more interesting to me, historically and cross-culturally.</p>
<p>Was English a possibility? English majors study literature. While that is something I like, it's not what I want to devote my undergrad career to. I'm much more drawn to more global issues. International relations are something I find extremely fascinating and it's a great program at my school. The point of this whole ordeal is indeed the fact that I'm trying to find a balance - as applicable in my case as it may be - between "likeability" and "usefulness". It bothers me, however, that precisely MY interests are the ones that are the ambiguous in terms of income. But when someone is as polarized as me - and this has been a lifetime trend (languages, history, art, music are strengths. Math, science, anything computational - weakness), point is I really don't want to spend four years studying something that's "useful" but will make me miserable. I also don't want to study something that I really like but has no use at all. </p>
<p>I'm prepared to receive criticism about my choice, but so far nobody I have spoken to has suggested an apt alternative choice for my personal situation. I have confidence in my ability to make decisions pertaining to my future. That doesn't mean I have confidence in the lovely economic market. At 19, that's a lot to think about.</p>
<p>I am told that lots of librarians are set to retire, and will need to be replaced. If you know foreign languages and have some area of specialization, you are at an advantage. Of course, that means taking a MSc in library sciences. Another path someone who loves languages could take is in intelligence work, in particular translation. Ayoung woman I knew quite some time ago parlayed a degree in East Asian studies and ease of working with figures into a job in investment banking. Her first assignment had nothing to do with her knowledge of Japanese. It involved debt restructuring for a major Latin American corporation. She knew neither Spanish nor Portuguese, but did fine. Although she received glowing reviews from her boss, she quit after a couple of years to pursue an MBA and an M.A. in IR. Another person I knew was hired by an investment bank although he was a history major because he was familiar with Asia. Other people have gotten jobs in advertising, or working in the documentation departments of corporations. Still others have found jobs in administrative capacities, including universities.
With liberal arts degrees, graduates do not have ready-made careers as do engineers, and premeds. Your office of career services ought to have some knowledge of what kind of jobs graduates such as you were able to obtain. The best thing is not to focus solely on the year immediately after graduation, but say, three years later.</p>
<p>"But when someone is as polarized as me - and this has been a lifetime trend (languages, history, art, music are strengths. Math, science, anything computational - weakness), point is I really don't want to spend four years studying something that's "useful" but will make me miserable. I also don't want to study something that I really like but has no use at all."</p>
<p>Our state is littered with CS graduates working at Starbucks, thousands of laid-off Boeing engineers with no hope of every working in the aerospace industry. Engineering most certainly does NOT establish a career, and much of the engineering work is being shipped to China and India. The last lawyer slot that opened up in the Attorney General's office here, paying $38k a year, brought in more than 350 applicants (and the job required at least two years of prior experience - it wasn't entry level.) My former assistant, a CS guy with 5 years of experience, got so fed up that he has opened a little luncheonette called, appropriatately, "The Soup Kitchen." So, at least where I live, CS, engineering, and law (except those at the top of the class, or with connections - which is true in EVERYTHING) are dead ends.</p>
<p>If you can speak Spanish and write, you can basically write your ticket in state government these days. Translators and writers are in huge demand, and the pay is good.</p>
<p>I agree with Mini, no major establishes a career, nothing is for sure. My instinct tells me (I can be wrong) that you will be more succesful if you do what you enjoy doing, instead of something you dislike but is allegedly more profitable. I think the publishing industry would be a great place for you, but so will government. In both places you can make a living. As I said before, I think the key to be succesful is doing something you love to do. Good luck, you sound like a very smart person, and I hope you the best.</p>
<p>I think personal attributes and even luck have a lot to do with finding a career you enjoy. If you are willing to take risks and have energy and passion, you are way ahead of the pack. You sound like a young woman who knows herself very well, Tufta08, and I predict that you will do just fine. I do believe that it would be very useful for you to try to locate internships in publishing during your studies, because they have proven to be very good networks for future jobs. I have seen brilliant people with prestigious degrees end up unemployed, and I have seen people with no degrees but a lot of drive achieve a lot. I think your own qualities are more important than whether you take a technical or liberal arts track.</p>