<p>badblonde, I hope you took advantage of the other opportunities to see things, studio classes unless they had canceled them that day or lessons or interaction with students. DD found everyone very warm and receptive when outside the audition, but agree it was the most “professional” audition she did for undergrad. Definite contrast to the school experience.</p>
<p>^Thanks, violoncello. Yes, we have come to understand a whole lot more about voice programs, people, and auditions since that time.</p>
<p>For instance, we now understand that Rice’s tight-lipped audition day was more similar to “professional” auditions than other colleges’ auditions (kind of like Singersmom07 suggested). We’ve also come to understand that a tight-lipped judges panel does not mean you didn’t do well in the audition. While we understood even then that it was thoughtful and possibly unusual of Dr. King to throw out that compliment (particularly because of the dearth of feedback throughout the rest of the day), and that it WAS a compliment, we were still a little perplexed at the apparent lack of “enthusiasm” from Rice that day. We wondered if it meant that my son didn’t do so well at Rice, comparatively. We wondered if maybe inadvertently auditioning on the same day as all the grad students (and no other undergrads) was a strike against him because he would compare so unfavorably to grad students in auditions. (How silly! As though the voice faculty doesn’t know what they should expect from one level or the next?! We were dumb.) Of course, after he got accepted, we understood a bigger picture. And we have also come to understand how silly it was to ever expect that he might get into Dr. King’s studio. I wouldn’t be surprised if undergrads did occasionally get into Dr. King’s studio, but I would think that the odds are stacked against them, since not only has he got to want that undergrad in there, but he also has to have the space & need for him/her!</p>
<p>So, badblonde, don’t let the lack of feedback get you/your D down. It seems to be the way they operate, intentionally, and it doesn’t mean she didn’t wow them! :)</p>
<p>I hope the new teacher is Bitzas!! That would be so wonderful! And can’t you just bet that grad school apps will go through the roof if she does sign on with Shepherd? :o</p>
<p>@Simplelife…I guess that is a great way to look at the audition -a bit more on a ‘professional’ level- although, D wasn’t really bothered by the lack of personal attention as she knew from a few friends who also recently auditioned that was the set-up.<br>
@singersmom07…we visited Rice last year, took the tour, D sat in on some classes, she had a sit down w/ G. Scott (admissions), a lesson w/ K.Kaun as well as a meeting w/ Dr. King - all of whom could not have been warmer & more personally interested in her! So she came to the audition with a good feeling…hr accompanist @ audition is a coach as well and he did tell her it was a pleasure to play for her!</p>
<p>I guess we got a bit spoiled by the effusive reception she has rec’d @ her 2 other auditions…now on to IU and NW…</p>
<p>D also knows Bitzas from last summer @ Tanglewood, and thought she was fab - although she personally worked w/ Phyllis Hoffman not Bitzas…</p>
<p>D feels honored just to have passed the prescreening and have the admissions remember her!
thanks!</p>
<p>^Well, she sounds very talented and very prepared … and much more knowledgable about the process than we were at that phase of the game! Good for both of you, and
best wishes at IU and NW! :)</p>
<p>My D was so disappointed after her audition there last year. She was certain that she’d never get in because the panel said nothing to her except the “Thank you for auditioning we’ll be in touch”…and then she got in! It was the only school like that. I guess it’s just how they do it there…</p>
<p>To keep the common theme going, my D (piano) also noticed the same thing when she autitioned at Rice. She said that it looked like all the doors to the audition rooms were on timers. They all opened at the same time; spit one kid out and suck another one in, close…repeat 
She has just started her 2nd semester at Rice and is so happy there.</p>
<p>I told D abut the conversation I had going here, and she was relieved to know that some with the same experience were later accepted to Rice!
thanks, all!</p>
<p>Hate to be a downer or anything…but when I auditioned at Rice, I had pretty much the opposite experience. After I sang, the accompanist (vocal coach grant loehnig) turned to me and asked who I studied with as did Kaun and Mentzer. Then they asked me who I liked to listen to and responded saying that I did a great job. Then i left the audition room. Later I was complimented in private by one of the professors who went on and on about my voice. I received a relatively large scholarship and was accepted in into Dr. Kings studio. Rice is now my school :)</p>
<p>Interesting. Thanks for sharing! And you’re undergrad? Who WERE you studying with, if you don’t mind me asking?
Great job, btw!</p>
<p>would be happy to PM you. Although for some reason when I tried to I couldnt…</p>
<p>^Okay. Thanks! I’ve PM’d you and added you to my contacts list. :)</p>
<p>I have a few thoughts about the admission process at Rice that should not be shared publicly; if you’d care to add me to your contacts list, I’m happy to do it via message.</p>
<p>Thanks, fiddlefrog. I’ll add you and PM you! :)</p>
<p>^^Hi again, fiddlefrog. I’m back in the states and tried to contact you again, but your PM box is full. I’m guessing that you were perhaps inundated after offering to share a little insight via PM? :)</p>
<p>I’ve received more messages in reply to that post than I could possibly do justice to, so I’m going to restrict myself to a public comment and trust in this semi-anonymity.</p>
<p>The admissions process at the Shepherd School is an unusual one across the board, but in most cases, it is unusual in its very high level of personalization. That there are so many stories to the contrary coming out of families of undergraduate voice applicants seems incongruous with the normal experience there – but it fits in with a few other facts and rumors. The undergraduate vocal contingent has been shrinking and shrinking. Fundraising to build a proper opera house is underway. Opera has been identified as an institutional priority. The bottom line is that undergraduate vocal studies are being deprioritized, and I suspect that the number of students will continue to shrink. The Shepherd School’s guiding administrative principle in recent years has been to do nothing that it cannot do superbly – which sometimes means cutting or gutting one program in favor of another. </p>
<p>Thus, I’d be inclined to understand a disinterested faculty vibe as a result of general motion away from undergraduate voice studies, rather than as a response to a particular student.</p>
<p>That’s enlightening, fiddlefrog! Thanks for sharing.
You phrased it very nicely. It doesn’t seem that you said anything provocative or unfavorable. I, for one, appreciate the insight. :)</p>
<p>Because physical maturity is such an important part of vocal development, as well as the inaccuracy of any kind of predictability about which voices will mature well and which will fail to bloom, most faculty at conservatory level music schools have a preference for graduate students. That they must accept undergraduate students in order to maintain a comprehensive BM program is the deterrent. Do not take it personally. It is the product of years and years of experience. Additionally, the faculty members at these schools tend to be active performers (at a high professional level), not necessarily trained as pedagogues capable and willing to teach and develop young voices. For these reasons, IMHO, most undergraduate voice students (18-21) do not belong in a conservatory environment.</p>
<p>My son’s Rice audition experience two years ago was the most personalized of all of his auditions. After his audition, the intructor took him out to meet two students from her studio and asked them to show him around and take him to a class. She also asked to meet with him and my wife at lunch time. She was very open and warm and shared freely about the whole Rice experience. I am sure that different instruments are different in their procedures and the degree of formality/warmth/personality they believe is appropriate at auditions.</p>
<p>For my son, Juilliard was the most formal of the auditions.</p>
<p>@fiddlefrog
I actually disagree with you. The undergraduate program is just going through a transitional phase as teachers are replaced. The undergrad program has always been small, but that’s true of any instrument of Rice. I would certainly not venture to say that it is shrinking. According to admissions they try to have the same number of undergrad voice students enroll every year. And that has not changed with exception of this year as the new teacher is being picked.</p>
<p>^^^Interesting insight, lorelei (as usual). Thanks for sharing. During the search process, we had always heard, “go for the teacher,” as opposed to the school. So my son focused his search on various voice teachers, which can be hard to do as a relatively “unconnected” high school student. (I remember thinking, “Where does one start?!” Often, the teachers you hear about when you’re new at the game ARE the conservatory-level teachers.) Your perspective adds even more insight to the importance of searching for the best teacher for one’s particular needs, rather than the best school in terms of “rankings” or “public opinion.” And you validate the strengths of an undergraduate education that focuses primarily on the undergraduate performer.</p>
<p>But, can a case be made for the “connections” afforded at a conservatory over a less-“recognized” school of music? Often, it seems, conservatory folks are more currently “better-connected.” Or does all that come out in the wash when applying to grad school?</p>
<p>My son ended up choosing a non-conservatory for undergrad, because he went for the best teacher for his needs at the lowest cost school after scholarships, rather than the most prestigious school that accepted him. (He applied only to schools with strong opera programs, so any school in his mix met certain criteria.) So far, so good, in terms of performance opportunities and pedagogy. We’re very happy.</p>
<p>It could be impossible to answer: how essential are connections and prestige at the undergraduate level? Educational opportunities and careers evolve for a myriad of reasons. But it surely MUST help to at least get your foot in the door if you can announce that you earned your undergrad degree at such-and-such prestigious conservatory, studied with such-and-such renowned teacher, or have connections with “the best” graduate teachers or apprentice programs via that undergraduate teacher.</p>
<p>I’ve always been intrigued by this line between reputation and reality. In all walks of life. Where exactly is it drawn? And how can one quantify how much reputation and prestige have ultimately propelled a person through life?</p>
<p>When my son was looking at undergrad schools, he was attracted to Shepherd BECAUSE he believed Dr. King to be an outstanding teacher, not because Shepherd was Shepherd. (Well, also because other excellent ‘more academic’ opportunities abound at Rice, which was true for every school but the ‘safety’ on my son’s list.) We were inspired by what we saw and heard in Dr. King’s studio class. He struck us as an excellent teacher. (We were observing him with primarily grad students, btw. Out of quite a large studio class, only two of the students in the room were undergrads.) Of course you’re not saying that great teachers can’t be found at conservatories – only that all conservatory teachers are not inherently great teachers for young voices. But it sounds like you’re also making a related case for undergrads leaning towards programs that focus primarily on undergrad students.</p>
<p>Anyway, I like what you had to say, lorelei. It was enlightening to me, but in some regards, it was along the lines of how I already tend to think: pretty independently and with less regard for “prestige” simply for the sake of “prestige.” Thanks for the insight! :)</p>