@collegebobollege can get it from gradeinflation.com, from fraternity and sorority websites, even some of the course websites (mostly in STEM but some outside) are just public…I can go on there and see what the instructors do to grade their courses and look at their materials. I also have friends there that explain it to me and show me their course materials (we would compare).
My conclusion is that Vanderbilt is hard like the other elite schools but within that group isn’t among the especially tough. Surprisingly, outside of STEM oriented schools where especially tough course work is no surprise, that actually goes to some of the schools that do grade quite leniently on average, Also, there is grade inflation at Vanderbilt and basically every other elite and non-elite and it has been well-documented. Many faculty (especially older ones who have witnessed grading norms change over decades and may have also adjusted their own grading or workload) will even admit to it (yes, including those at elite schools). It doesn’t seem sensible that other schools with similar semester wide and graduating GPA’s have grade inflation but one particular school doesn’t.
@Sophie1295 : I’m sure I would have claimed the same thing my freshman year. I’m not saying it is easy perse, but is likely easier than it could be (I assure you that in most humanities courses, not many grades are given below B+ and certainly not below B). Notice that within STEM and econ (which has similar grading tactics as STEM but maybe a little less intensive), many will work really hard and not get even a B+ or B for that matter. In most humanities course, typically B flat is the exception to a rule (though admittedly courses taken by many non-majors may have more freedom) if you simply did most of the work. I had to do quite a bit of work my freshman year to earn solid grades, but I wouldn’t say that the grades were harsh. They were honestly a bit more forgiving (especially in my writing class) than my AP instructors (though I liked my English class better in UG because we got to use the rare books lib. for one research paper…my instructor had good standards, and I learned, but I’m not going to say getting an A grade made break as much sweat as I did in other classes). There were some teachers during my undergrad in history and political science who were tougher than normal so would give many B grades (they typically had intensive workloads and expected lots of good class participation and good writing as well), but a B- or lower was pretty exceptional and I don’t think it was because we were simply all amazing.
Grade inflation vs deflation depends on your benchmark. Relative to the average Vandy GPA of 25 years ago, 2.9, yes there has been grade inflation. Compared to Brown, Yale, Harvard, or Stanford grades are deflated. The idea that the worlds best test takers make 60’s to 70’s on “intro” level STEM classes and need a curve is ridiculous deflation. When compared to Princeton, MIT, JHU, Cal-B the grades are even.
@bud123 : Harvard isn’t that bad for STEM (B average) and also, except Brown in some case, Introductory and intermediate STEM courses for pre-healths are substantially more difficult content wise at many of those schools (one of Princeton’s biology sequence is basically a biophysics/physical biology lite course…Harvard mixes lots of organic chemistry and serious biochemistry/molecular cell biology in and doesn’t really focus much on memorization). Stanford and Yale just over-curve many classes. Also, remember that the SAT/ACT is primarily multiple choice. Intro. STEM courses typically have free response components (often most of the test) and also have substantial variation in student prep when it comes to exposure to the given subject (it matters how they test in that subject and not on a general test that is extremely predictable). Like a student with AP credit in chemistry is generally going to have an advantage in gen. chem 1 (some would argue they shouldn’t be in the class) at even elites, even if not necessarily an A (often the B grades are the ones a little too comfortable so underestimate the course and study less, but they do less work for the B grade than others with less experience), whereas the student who is rusty or has no AP experience will naturally have to work harder or struggle(these effects have been reported in the literature though there is some that suggest that there may be little difference between 4 and 5). At those other places, you have more Seimens winners and those who have done or made training camp for national and international Olympiads which is a completely different beast versus AP or IB and certainly an SAT subject test:
Seriously, go compare it to AP/IB. I would argue that even the national level may be a little harder than AP/IB, or SATII test.
To say that “most” students at elite schools are used to taking exams anything like that is a stretch (and Harvard tries to achieve it with its 1st semester “general biology” course or its second semester “organic for life sciences” course) so imagine when an instructor tries to give them a taste of what I would consider the real messiness that is scientific problem solving. Even HYPMSCh students have classes with low exam means in STEM and econ because the instructors are trying shake them out of thinking at the levels most of them did in HS (as Faline said, regardless of what you made on the SAT/ACT, your in college, and at an excellent one at that). Unfortunately, that will be a shock to many great SAT/ACT testers. It hurts at first, but questions at those levels do represent how one needs to think to be able to be successful in the field. Furthermore, it demonstrates a key thing about doing real science: You don’t always know everything and certainly will not always get it right on the first time especially since the problems in real life usually require much more than regurgitating something you were told or a process you were shown. One has to learn to improvise. I actually enjoy the harder exams, especially in STEM subjects I enjoy because it stretches my thinking and tests to see whether I can derive something else for a new scenario or if I can somehow “see” the concepts I learned in a seemingly foreign situation. One may not always “get it”, but it feels good when you do and is quite an achievement versus simply struggling in the exam because they are asking for nitpicky details that will not be retained in the near and certainly not distant future. Problem solving skills are lasting and typically STEM exams that require a high level of it over several items yield lower means than normal. That is what the scaling is for.
@AnnieBot : My guess is that engineering still seems rougher despite you having to work in classes outside of it (many STEM majors are good writers, but for others, it does take more effort). It’s really all about the departmental norms and the norms outside of say STEM and econ. are pretty uniform across all schools;a very restricted range distribution of grades. The only difference is that at selective schools, achieving the same range as the “easier” schools requires instructors to at least give more work, but it is generally still restricted range at the upper end of the scale whereas STEM courses, where they give hard or reasonable exams vs. the student body come out to a nice spread of grades. Part of this is due to structure differences in courses as many humanities Social Science classes have much more than just exams. However, even the exam based ones are often more “straight-forward” so to speak. From my experience, they don’t seem to go out of their way to write particularly challenging or thought-provoking test items.
Regardless, the thread went off topic. The OP should take away that Vanderbilt is not a special case among the ones they named when it comes to challenge and grading. Outside of STEM, it would likely feel like the other elite schools unless there is some signature non-STEM program or track known for higher workload or standards than a normal major at the school. It isn’t as if they’ll be screwing themselves (basically portions of their overall GPA) over by attending Vanderbilt. STEM is what they need to worry about regardless of which school they choose. It will generally be tough in the lower division and intermediate courses if you lack experience or don’t develop good strategies quickly.