Rice vs. Harvey Mudd

Colleges and Universities A-Z Rice University
1

<p>I'm now deciding between Rice (with 20k/year merit) and Mudd (with 10/year aid, but keep in mind it's 10k/ year more expensive total as well). I plan on majoring in engineering, possibly double majoring in economics.</p>

<p>I really enjoyed the campus and facilities at Rice, but from what I saw and hear, Harvey Mudd has a better engineering department in terms of the actual teachers (only undergraduate-focussed and more hard-core.) Also, the Claremont colleges host excellent economics opportunities (even though I probably wouldn't double at Mudd.)</p>

<p>One problem I've had is that Mudd is very small, and Rice isn't too well known where I live (in the East) either; therefore very few people can draw accurate comparisons. Can anyone here clarify? Thanks!</p>

<p>P.S. I am still considering Cornell to an extent, but have been disappointed by Cornell Days- The school just didn't fit me well.</p>

2

<p>If you think Cornell doesn't fit you now, wait until the weather starts sucking (wintertime). You will have snow coming out of your ass. </p>

<p>Most of us here can't draw comparisons, but we can tell you accurate things about Rice. You can get accurate facts from Mudd, then compare the two yourself...</p>

<p>As far as I know Rice's engineering department is excellent (though Mudd's is also very good). When you get to a certain level of excellence, does it really matter (at the undergraduate level) if one is slightly better than the other? And I'm not saying Mudd really is better than Rice, even though it may be higher ranked by some magazines. </p>

<p>Think about where you will fit in better. Where will you be happier? Because if you're happy, you'll be able to succeed in your college career, and that's what it really comes down to - what you do with the opportunities presented to you.</p>

3

<p>"If you think Cornell doesn't fit you now, wait until the weather starts sucking (wintertime). You will have snow coming out of your ass."</p>

<p>ROFL. Seriously...Cornell's winter weather is VICIOUS. I imagine HM's weather is pretty good though, being in Cali and all. Rice is really hot and humid but it's tolerable :)</p>

<p>I def agree with Beefs; at this point it's not that HM's engineering is significantly "better" than Rice's engineering or vice versa. Financial issues aside, right now you need to focus on which place you like better--you're going to get a fine engineering education at either institution.</p>

<p>Rice is very well known in Texas and the South, while HM is very well known in California and on the West Coast, I imagine; both schools have regional prestige yet also are both well known in the engineering world. You're not going to be "so much better off" attending HM over Rice or vice versa in terms of becoming an engineer.</p>

<p>Which one do you like better? That's the one you should go to! :)</p>

<p>P.S. I'm from the East too but I'm going to Rice this fall!</p>

4

<p>My son was in the exact same position (with the same financial offers) last year in trying to decide between Rice and Harvey Mudd. He also was accepted into Cornell but wasn't very excited about the weather and the size of the school.</p>

<p>While he originally planned on going to Owls Weekend, he ended up going to the Mudd accepted students program. After that, he was convinced that HMC was the school for him.</p>

<p>Now, as he is finished his freshman year, we are convinced that he made the right decision. He absolutely loves the school. He finds the classes challenging, the teachers outstanding and really enjoys the other students as they shares his passion for science and engineering.</p>

<p>I recommend that you go where you will feel most comfortable. I'm sure that you will get an excellent education at both institutions.</p>

5

<p>First--how important is the 20k annual difference in cost? If you have to borrow that money to attend Mudd or if it causes your folks to significantly delay retirement, your decision should be easy. Otherwise . . . . </p>

<p>S1 is frosh at Mudd. S2 is going to Rice next year. Both are engineering majors. Neither applied to both schools. (Cornell was an option for S1, but too big, too isolated, and is an athletic league that both sons actively disdain.)</p>

<p>I second the other comments. You won't go wrong academically or for job placement with either school. How small do you want? (S1 knew all the other Mudd freshmen by Feb. of this year--but the total population of the 5 colleges makes Mudd much bigger on a social basis.) Just how free do you want to be in your non-academic activities? (Rice is forgiving of a lot and also integrates freshman into the general population, but Mudd appears to be more open than anyone else for explosions.) Just how extremely bright do you want your academic peers to be?</p>

<p>Do you have any desire at all to watch organized athletics at a big school level? What are the odds that you'll want to continue schooling after your bachelor's degree (and the appropriate school may differ if you are thinking of Medical/law school v. phd)? How important is it to have easy access to big city amenities? (Mudd has nothing like the Rice's surrounding cultural attractions and access to mass transit--and it is an hour from much of the "true" LA.) Do you enjoy spending weekend time in the mountains or desert? Does the Mudd core and the school's more extensive humanities requirements attract or repel?</p>

<p>How important are the pro's and cons of one school being a research university and one not? (All profs selected/tenured based primarily on teaching ability vs. more cutting edge research available immediately on campus.)</p>

<p>Like Oldman60, we have been very pleased with Mudd--and S1 hasn't regretted choosing it over the tech school in Cambridge Mass. He is thrilled with the rigor of the program, the abilities of his peers, and with the honor code and its impact on all aspects of his life at the school (bottom line, the school gives frosh plenty of rope and expects that they won't hurt themselves too badly). </p>

<p>At the same time, we think that Rice is going to be a great place for S2--he isn't as focused on graduate work and wanted much of the same things that Mudd provides, but with a little more size and with closer proximity to the advantages of a big city. Hence, Rice was a relatively easy choice for him.</p>

<p>If the money isn't crucial, you've got a very subjective decision. Which felt better and why? Odds are, you'd be happy at either place; when compared to most engineering schools, their differences pale in comparison to their similarities.</p>

6

<p>"Just how extremely bright do you want your academic peers to be?"</p>

<p>I imagine you're suggesting that if he wanted them REALLY extremely bright, he'd go to Harvey Mudd? I don't think that's well founded at all. Especially if you consider talents outside of science/engineering.</p>

<p>Additionally, I can't imagine Rice hindering your chances at grad school in comparison to Harvey Mudd. </p>

<p>I see it all coming down to finances and whether you want to go to a school as narrowly focused on science/engineering as Harvey Mudd or a school with a wider variety of people.</p>

7

<p>Rice engineering grads place VERY well into grad programs and/or straight to careers, and Rice is well-known in the graduate school world. You have two great choices and can't go wrong with either. (But please don't make the mistake of thinking that somehow you will be better prepared or have better opportunities from a HM degree. They are both truly stellar.)</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
Additionally, I can't imagine Rice hindering your chances at grad school in comparison to Harvey Mudd.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There's a reason Mudd has the 2nd highest grad school placement percentage in the country. Rice has stellar grad school placement as well, but it's no where near Mudd's.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I imagine you're suggesting that if he wanted them REALLY extremely bright, he'd go to Harvey Mudd? I don't think that's well founded at all. Especially if you consider talents outside of science/engineering.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And why is that not well-founded? I believe we have the 4th highest SAT score average in the country. Mudd students are known for being extraordinarily intelligent. Also, you seem to have implied that Mudd students aren't brilliant in areas outside of science/engineering. Yet, Mudd students take many humanities classes (many off campus too) and generally excel in them. </p>

<p>If the financial packages were equal, I'd say 100% go for Mudd because its engineering program is just better. But, given the OP's financial situation, I see how this is a very difficult choice.</p>

9

<p>SAT scores are in no way an indication of intelligence. George Bush did horrible on his SAT, and look at him now... wait, horrible example. The point is, many brilliant individuals have horrible SAT/ACT scores. Those tests measure your test-taking ability, not intelligence or knowledge. Why do you think so many people with 2350's get rejected from MIT, while others with 2100's but that have demonstrated their intellectual ability in their extracurriculars and GPA might get in?
Even GPA in high school is more a measure of how hard one works, not how smart one is... measuring intelligence would require looking at many other factors, and I don't think there is a way to accurately compare two great schools such as Rice and Mudd in terms of student intelligence. </p>

<p>And again, even if Mudd engineering is better, it won't matter if you're not happy there. Your happiness at a school will enable you to be productive and take advantage of the opportunities presented to you. </p>

<p>And then of course you have to determine how important the financial difference is (remember you will also be going to Grad school after college).</p>

10

<p>"Also, you seem to have implied that Mudd students aren't brilliant in areas outside of science/engineering. Yet, Mudd students take many humanities classes (many off campus too) and generally excel in them."</p>

<p>How many Mudd students major in humanities (and only humanities)? I'm guessing close to none. Getting good grades in general education humanities courses is not the same as dedicating the majority of one's 4 years to a discipline within the humanities, which many Rice students do and which Rice is much better equipped to handle. Compare the grad placement percentages for Rice humanities students vs. Mudd humanities students.</p>

11

<p>And [citation needed] for all of the statistics thrown around.</p>

12

<p>Cincinnatistudent, Mudd requires a humanities concentration that becomes your minor --
Humanities</a> and Social Sciences</p>

<p>It is one of the major factors that is making S's decision between Chicago and Mudd so tough.</p>

<p>Mudders can have a humanities major:
Off-Campus</a> Major
Independent</a> Program of Study</p>

13

<p>Also, comparing SAT scores is pointless in this case, because of the difference in the sorts of institutions Rice and Harvey Mudd are. Rice has a division one athletics program as well as schools of architecture and music that require admitting students with less than perfect SAT scores. Harvey Mudd does not have any of the three. Naturally, Harvey Mudd's average SAT score is going to be higher, but that does not necessarily reflect a substantial difference in the brilliance of Rice kids focused on science and Harvey Mudd kids focused on science. Rice has brilliant young scientists PLUS brilliant humanities/social sciences students PLUS top rated music and architecture schools PLUS division one athletics. My main argument is that Rice is a much better place for students with a wide range of interests, and I'd be surprised if you took issue with that.</p>

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<p>"you" refers to anyone in my last post</p>

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<p>And I'm not trying to make the case that Rice is better for the original poster, only point out what I see as the biggest difference between the two schools. If the OP knows that he's absolutely focused on going to grad school in engineering and loves to hang out with engineering-minded people all the time, then Mudd might be a better choice. If he'd like a more balanced experience, Rice might have the edge.</p>

16

<p>Last clarification, I promise:</p>

<p>I didn't mean to suggest that Mudd wouldn't be a place to find really brilliant peers; I only meant to challenge the implication that if one desired brilliant peers, Harvey Mudd would be the clear choice over Rice.</p>

17

<p>The main flaw in your argument is that Harvey Mudd is not unit-college if you will. It is connected to four other colleges, which will include those things you saw we lack (I dont know about architecture though). It makes Mudd a great place for "students with a wide range of interests."</p>

<p>The Claremont Consortium is comparable to a larger university that has different colleges for science majors, engineering majors and humanities/social science majors, but with localized housing and better teaching.</p>

18

<p>My brother, the Harvey Mudd senior who will be going to Rice for grad school next year, said that Rice felt like a larger version of Harvey Mudd. I would agree.</p>

<p>We've each spent a lot of time at each school, and I think it's fair to say that you meet a ridiculously high percentage of brilliant people both places.</p>

<p>I ended up with fantastic grad school options as a Rice engineering alumna.</p>

<p>You really can't go wrong with either one!</p>

19

<p>Hi all, hope you don’t mind me resurrecting a year old topic, but I know that at least one other member and I are grappling with the choice of these two schools. I’ve already posted in the Mudd forums, but I’ll reiterate my own situation:</p>

<p>I’m mostly attracted to the intimacy both Rice and Mudd offer undergrads. I’m shooting for engineering (MechE or EE) or CompSci, and my current goal is to go for grad school. Right now, I really value research experience/opportunities to know your professor in my undergraduate education. My financial situation at Mudd will be a little worse, but its nothing to complain about. I’ve visited both schools, Rice through Owl Days, Mudd through the Changing Faces program, and I can easily see myself as a part of both student bodies, and through the visits and these forums, I have a good picture of the slight differences in the student population that I’ll definitely think more about.</p>

<p>Again, I think I’ve already seen a lot of positive points on why a Rice education is valuable from the posts above, so as in the Mudd forum, I’m only asking questions that are concerns. Hopefully no one takes them the wrong way. Both of my questions are in response to Stevedad’s post #5. If you’re still around, or if anyone could explain them, I’d be really grateful.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>“What are the odds that you’ll want to continue schooling after your bachelor’s degree (and the appropriate school may differ if you are thinking of Medical/law school v. phd)?”
I know this point has been made several times, but I was wondering if there was a website/pamphlet from Rice that listed the grad schools engineering alumni have gone to. Mudd has an excellent example in their viewbook. Is this something I should email Rice admissions about?</p></li>
<li><p>“How important are the pro’s and cons of one school being a research university and one not? (All profs selected/tenured based primarily on teaching ability vs. more cutting edge research available immediately on campus.)”
I’m not sure which school goes where in reference to Stevedad’s second sentence. My impression was that both schools selected professors based on their commitment to teaching, although I have heard that there are some so-so TA’s at Rice. And don’t both provide excellent research experiences?</p></li>
</ul>

<p>I’m pretty confident that both schools will provide ample opportunities to participate in research. However, even though I did get the Century Scholarship at Rice, I was told that it was a sort of crap-shoot to get good mentors, and I got the impression that freshmen might not have the necessary skills to do meaningful work until they’ve gone past the intro classes.</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

20

<p>I’ve not seen a compilation of where Rice grads go to further their studies. You might want to check individual department websites. I looked at the BioE site (which I am), and it didn’t have one (though a lot of BioE’s are pre-med, and over 90% of Rice grads who apply get into med school), but another department might. You could probably ask admissions about it.</p>

<p>I thought that HMC’s research opportunities were not nearly as substantial as Rice’s. Since there is no grad program at HMC, there aren’t grad students doing research, and grad students are generally the driving force of university labs. I looked into HMC when I was looking at colleges, and I think I remember that the lack of research there was one of the reasons I decided not to apply. As far as professors, you only have grad students teaching in entry-level courses in engineering. Physics and Chem are taught by faculty, but math 101 and 102, and sometimes 211 (Calc I, Calc II, and Differential Equations, respectively) are sometimes taught by post-docs (i.e. only people who have already obtained a PhD… not some second-year grad student). Once you get into your second year (your engineering classes), you won’t have TA’s, and classes will be quite intimate. Also, part of the point of Century Scholars is so you have lab experience before you reach your sophomore year when you learn the useful things, so you will be able to immediately begin applying what you learn. Even at HMC, you are still going to have to cover the basic sciences first.</p>