Rice vs Umich for math major -desperately need advice!

Hi,

I am hesitating between Rice and U of Michigan (Ann Arbor) for math major.
I am an international student who wants to study math at undergrad, then pursue a Ph.D in business econ or finance. In terms of math ranking, Umich is in top 10. But overall ranking of Rice is much higher than Umich.

I have to pay similar amount of tuition for both schools since I am not eligible for financial aid.

Is it tough to get good GPA at Rice? How about Umich?
Academic atmosphere?
Campus life?

Any advice is welcome. Thank you.

You can’t go wrong with either. I’d say that UMich probably leaves more options open if you want to pursue pure math at the grad level but it’s not like Rice will close any doors. You’ve gotten into two very good schools, so I wouldn’t worry too much.

If ranking is one of your criteria, U of Michigan consistently ranks among the top universities in the world - between

17 to #21. It also has the largest living alumni base with 570,000 which can invaluable for networking during in your life/career.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/rankings

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2016/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank_label/sort_order/asc/cols/rank_only

http://cwur.org/2015/

These were two of my daughter’s top choices (she will attend Rice). Both are great schools for almost any STEM discipline and both will put you in great shape for grad school if you do well. As a math major that is probably your objective and you can’t go wrong with either. But these two schools are very different and this really comes down to an individual decision – cold v. warm, huge v. smaller campus, big time sports v. 2d tier sports, likely anonymity v. big fish in small pond, large classes taught by grad students in the first two years v. smaller classes taught by faculty throughout college, greek life v. residential colleges. Your preferences are your preferences and should decide the question.

Looking at the bigger picture, view your choice as a 40 year investment in your life/career. As an international student, there is a good chance that you will be looking at global opportunities after you graduate. The U of Michigan has a greater global presence and alumni connections throughout the world. It’s not just what you know, it’s who you know.

http://alumni.umich.edu/clubs-and-groups/international/

Two very different schools.

Rice is urban in a major city, very diverse and International. Small, private probably opportunities to research, intern, etc. strong path from an elite school into Ph.D. Programs. Beautiful campus in the museum district which is a great area. Easy to get around Houston.

Michigan is a huge public school with multiple campuses that are quite large and impressive. Nice college town not far from Detroit (not a thriving city). You will be with many thousands of instate Michigan students. Many very solid academic programs. Perhaps large classes and competition for resources and placement.

U of Michigan has an international student enrollment of 6,270 students. It has another 2,983 scholars, faculty, and staff studying or working there.

http://www.internationalcenter.umich.edu/Annual_Report.pdf.

With such a large international population, U of Michigan has an experienced, well-developed infrastructure to support them.

http://internationalcenter.umich.edu/intlstudents/faq.html

m1817 points out the job prospects and networking, which is something you should highly consider into your choice. There are also several other factors that you should keep in mind when selecting the school.

  1. School atmosphere. Do you enjoy a large public school or a small private school atmosphere? Michigan is much, much larger than Rice and will contain numerous resources and faculty across campus. Rice has a more tightknit feeling and it's often that you'll see many people you know just walking to class. Michigan also has a much larger school spirit in general, unless you're really big into baseball.
  2. Curriculum. I can't say much about Michigan but Rice has a very flexible curriculum. It both allows and forces you to take classes outside your major. Michigan might have a more variety of classes to choose from because they have more faculty. I would say both schools will be challenging since they're ranked similarly, but the courses and curriculum makes a huge difference.
  3. Location. Four(ish) years doesn't seem like a lot, but in the moment, you'll definitely be aware of where your school is located at. Houston is the 4th largest city in the U.S., has a huge foundation in the oil/gas and energy industries, and can get extremely hot in the summers (though is very pleasant during the school year). Ann Arbor is a beautiful, mid-size city, and because it's way up North, will probably be the opposite of Houston in terms of weather. In addition, there's a good chance you'll do some work (intern, co-op, post-grad) where the school is located. If you have a big geographic presence, this could be extremely important.
  4. Campus life. As mentioned, Michigan is big on sports. With such a high population, you will also probably find a large variety of students and many different activities to do. You might also feel a bit lost in the crowd sometimes. At Rice, campus life mainly revolves around the residential colleges, which most people enjoy because you get to know everyone you live with. At the same time, some people think this makes it hard to meet people outside your dorm and if you don't like the people you live with, you could feel like you're stuck for a few years.
  5. People. You'll definitely find spectacular characters at both universities. Michigan you might find a wider variety of students in the spectrum because of the sheer size. At Rice, I personally find generally, students are extremely diverse, well-rounded, and multi-dimensional. Though I wouldn't be surprised if there were certain people or attributes of people that you would find at Michigan who aren't represented at Rice. Also, does it matter to you the size of the percentage of international students? I think both universities are just over 10% of the student body, but Rice seems to contain a lot more from the Asian countries. The demographics is also quite different in the two schools, which may also influence your decision.

Honestly, I would say ignore the rankings and go with the intangibles. You’ll be challenged at both schools and both schools will open up doors for you. But nothing will replace the experience of four years at college.

The vast Majority of international students at UMich are graduate students.

About 7% undergrads are international. (About 2,000)
If the posters number above is accurate that would mean over 4,000 of 14,000 grad students are international

Rice is more than 12% international on the undergrad level

People who are not familiar with U of Michigan, stereotype it as big and impersonal. U of Michigan has residential communities called Michigan Learning Communities within the university which combine the personal attention of a small college environment with the resources of a large university http://lsa.umich.edu/mlc/.

MLC’s are self-selected residential groups of students and faculty, drawn together by shared goals and common intellectual interests.

Here is a video of the liberal arts Residential College MLC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9hCnWC4G1g.

You can make a big school small, but you can’t make a small school big.

m1817, “You can make a big school small, but you can’t make a small school big.” So CalTech isn’t big in spite of its small undergraduate size? The same is true of Rice on it’s impact in academia and beyond. I don’t buy your argument.

OP (also) talked about math major and ranking.

UMich’s math ranking is probably graduate student ranking. The question is: would an undergraduate be able to take advantage of those math wizard professor?
Unlikely, for an undergrad in any large school (but not impossible). Chances are the math you will go through will (until Junior year) be taught by grad students. Not sure about Rice (the ability to talk to the math wizard professors).

What are the chances a college student wanting to do math (X) at a university will end up doing math (X)? Not in the 90% range. Most UGs change their major, or at least reconsider their major.

I’m actually surprised that anyone would be willing to pay OOS rates for U. Michigan when over half of the class pays instate (tuition is 14k in state vs. OOS $44k). Doesn’t that bother you? This is an interesting statistic too - because it has been steadily dropping and reached 50% for the first time which is very telling.

That’s like saying I bought a BMW for $14k and you have to pay $44k for the exact same car! That’s a huge rip off if you ask me. More and more state universities want OOS students so they can make money! They are a business so they try to entice you by offering honors programs to take you away from the elite universities. It’s not the same thing. It’s called a brilliant marketing strategy!

These states are hurting for money and cannot provide as much aid to their state universities. So they’re increasing their enrollment to get more funds and they are cutting costs - such as salaries. So there are way too many students and not enough classes. They have 42k UG students. Geez! Don’t be surprised if you cannot graduate in 4 years due to limited space. There’s no way I would even let my kids apply for any OOS state university for two main reasons - OOS costs (rip off) and way too many students - a rat race with heavy weed outs!

Rice is by far a better choice than UM. Why do you think top universities such as Harvard, Princeton, WashU, Rice, Notre Dame, etc. average 5k in class size? That says it all. It’s because you will get the best quality education from smaller universities. You won’t be a number trying to survive in a rat race. Instead Rice will help you succeed vs. UM will push you out the whole time. If you really like UM, then a better option in my opinion is attend Rice for UG and UM for grad school (due to a smaller class size). There are 15k Grad students at UM. Just my 2 cents.

gtsjiho, I think newjersey17 makes some outstanding points. Why would anyone want to attend a school like University of Michigan where math classes are held in huge lecture halls when you can attend a school like Rice with a one to six faculty/student ratio? I certainly don’t want to be in large lecture-size classes.

Also, I just came across this article and ranking of the top ten applied mathematics undergraduate programs in the country. Michigan is not on the list, but Rice is (in the tenth position):

http://college.usatoday.com/2016/04/29/top-schools-for-applied-mathematics/

Personally, I don’t put much stock in rankings; however, an earlier poster stated that Michigan was ranked higher than Rice—apparently not so at the undergraduate level.

Good luck. I think you’ve received a lot of good information to help you make your decision.