Rice?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>My son who is a baritone in high school recently had two meetings on college/career day with the following: 1) the college counselour, 2) his choir director. When he asked what colleges for music he should be looking at he was told by BOTH that the best music school in the country was at Rice University. Is this even remotely true? We have ZERO experience with music schools as he is only a sophomore. I have a friend who went to Rice about twenty years ago and he has never mentioned the music school to me.</p>

<p>I am beginning to read through as many of these threads as possible to try to educate myself but I thought I would just pose this question since the first two responses we received were identical.</p>

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<p>I will set the tone for this thread right off the bat so that there are no nasty bouts about rankings. I don’t believe anyone who has true knowledge about music schools would identify one school as the best. There are a seemingly infinite number of variables when it comes to finding the best school for you. </p>

<p>However, that being said there are a handful of music schools that hover around the top together. Some of them are Rice, Juilliard, Curtis, Eastman, and NEC. Each has programs that they are strong in. Many knowledgeable musicians are of the opinion that Rice maintains the best student orchestra in the country. Juilliard, Curtis and Rice are also known for producing Met National Council Auditions winners and students that perform at the finest opera houses. </p>

<p>But none of this information needs to be restated. The threads here are a great starting point and I would strongly suggest that you continue the track that you are on of reading through as many as possible. :)</p>

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<p>The Shepherd School of Music is now just 34 years old. 20 years ago it was not well known. They have only really focused on developing the voice program in the last 7 years. That said, they reached the top quickly by focusing on hiring extraordinary teachers.</p>

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<p>As a parent of a child at Rice, I know I am biased, when I say it is an amazing University with an Amazing Music school. It is definately among the “Best”. I agree with violincello, you just can’t rank these programs because of the intricacies of studios, undergrad/grad ratios, playing opportunites…</p>

<p>It is however, frequently put in the “rankings” with Eastman, Curtis, Juilliard; the biggest difference is that Rice is a University , with all the diversity and academics that go along with great Universities. Unlike the other schools, you live and take classes with non-music students. For my D, who was strong academically, it was exactly what she wanted. Having spent many summers at Music camps, she knew she didn’t want to live/study 24/7 with only music majors. So, that is something to seriously consider. It is also one of the few (not only) to offer all of this on one campus.</p>

<p>My D is a freshman performance (instrumental) major. She has played in all of the orchestra concerts and though her very first part was mediocre, since then she has been given substantial parts for each rotation. She is also in a chamber group with 2 grad students and 2 undergrads. She is pleased with the playing opportunities and LOVES the school.</p>

<p>Do some research, talk to your son and perhaps visit.</p>

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<p>Having seen Rice’s fall opera Cosi Fan Tutte last night, I concur that the Rice musicians are truly stellar. Hard to believe what these young musicians can do especially in an ensemble situation when you know they are all incredible soloists. They seem extremely happy, albeit frenetically busy, and the campus is just glorious. I don’t think there is enough hours in the day for the musicians, but I can see why Rice is listed as having the happiest students in the country. If your son does not mind living in Texas, I would definitely encourage him to put Rice on his list of schools to check out.</p>

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<p>Voice programs swing in and out of favor depending on who is currently teaching within the program. Right now, Rice has some of the best teachers in the country!</p>

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<p>The Shepherd school of music is one of the top music programs, they have put together a top teaching faculty, their orchestra program is one of the best, and they have from everything I have heard from people who went there, really amazing facilities. Like the others, I would ignore what the guidance counselor and the choral teacher said about Shepherd being “the best”, one of the things I have learned with music is just how little guidance counselors and even a lot of music teachers know about things, and anyone who says something like “X is the best” is a symptom of that. If they said something like “knowing your child, I feel Shepherd is a standout” that would be different. Like any program, it depends on the student, someone might play English horn (hypothetically) and not like teacher X at school Y on that instrument.</p>

<p>The synthesis of what I have learned about ‘the best’ music programs that it is the program that works best for the student. After all, successful musicians come from a lot of different schools, Shepherd graduates for example don’t make up a large percentage of top level soloists coming up or seats in top orchestras (course, no one program does), and in the end while the level of teacher, the facilities and so forth can help enable a student, it is what ends up working that matters.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for the responses! I agree that it is probably best to ignore what the guidance counselor says in terms of a program’s quality considering they have almost no experience in the field. </p>

<p>How cool that a program so relatively young is among a small handful of the best schools! I would assume that its being young doesn’t mean much, right? If it’s the teachers that are important, then Rice having some of the best voice teachers in the country would determine its quality? I could be wrong, just asking. :)</p>

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<p>“The synthesis of what I have learned about ‘the best’ music programs that it is the program that works best for the student.”</p>

<p>This is especially true for voice. Follow musicprnts advice. Listen to those who know your sons voice best (this would include his private voice teacher). And remember, most voice students develop slowly and he will more than likely go to grad school, so try not to incur debt.</p>

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<p>Also, even knowing your son’s voice might not be enough. As you probably already know, the relationship between any music student and their teacher is special. It has to be everything the student needs…some need a warm, fuzzy person others need someone to push them…you get the point. Please let your child guide you through this aspect. Just because a teacher is “great” and is good with kids “like” your son, doesn’t mean that teacher is good FOR your son. It takes some “shopping” to find the right fit.</p>

<p>I don’t thing the age of a program is good or bad. It just is.</p>

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<p>The age of a program only means that it has a track record you can look at, looking back over the years you can see graduates who have done x,y and z. A new program won’t have that, or at least not a long track record of it. How a new program does is basically related to the commitment the school has to it, if they agressively seek out experienced teachers, if they ‘put their money’ where their mouth is in terms of facilities and teachers, if they seem to be going out of their way to give student musicians opportunities to perform and so forth, it is a good sign. An older program in one sense is less risky, since they have a track record, but an older program can also have a reputation from years past that presently isn’t doing such a great job, so that can be risky, too. In the end, like admissions itself, it is really a crapshoot, and all you can do is try and bring the odds more in your favor (my favorite line of all time comes from Damon Runyon, who wrote that life is 6-5 against in his book, just enough to keep it interesting:)</p>

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<p>It is foolishness to say that “____ School” is THE best in the country, because while a school may be very strong in one instrument/department, they may be less so in others. One must factor in the teacher, the entire department and how teacher interacts/fits in within that whole, performance opportunities, academics (if in a school where that is important), graduation rate, percentage of graduates employed within their field, and the all important “connections” that faculty/school has in the field.
Additionally, as musicprnt mentioned, a school may have been wonderful at one time and is now coasting on its reputation, something that might not be discovered until the student is enrolled or unless you have some fortuitous conversations with alumnae/parents. New administration may take a school in a totally different direction and the student has to roll with the punches.
You can find what appears to be the “perfect fit”, only to have it all fall apart due unanticipated changes such as a shift from undergraduate to graduate-based focused program or teachers leaving. Determine what kind of school the student desires (conservatory, university,university affiliated, LAC) then have a good hard look at location. If a kid really can’t take hot weather, Houston wouldn’t be a great domicile, while conversely, someone who loves sun and warmth would be miserable at Eastman(Rochester) or CIM(Cleveland). Big city, urban self-contained, small town, rural… Four years is a long time to spend in a place you don’t like. Of course the teacher is critical, but as my D is finding out, a teacher can leave for any reason but you just have to get through the next recital, performance, jury, etc, life goes on.
Make lists, consider all the options, talk to parents/students, visit, take lessons then make your decisions based on what feels right. Then know that (again, thank you musicprnt) it really is a big crap shoot!</p>

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<p>MezzoMama – yes the ranking concept was already made very clear earlier in the thread. I am curious, however, about some of your elaborations. Are you saying Rice is a school that is just coasting on its reputation and is no longer good? A lot of what you were saying sounded very specific.</p>

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<p>brassbarimom, I do not think MezzoMama was speaking specifically about Rice at all. If anything Rice is the opposite and is very much on the rise. They just recently required two of the world’s most renowned faculty Paul Kantor (violin) and Ken Cowan (organ). I think she was merely emphasizing what musicamusia said earlier about how programs swing in and out of favor based on who is teaching there. </p>

<p>To piggyback off the “track record” idea, my D (currently at Juilliard) informed me that Juilliard released statistics about their admissions, which showed that of the admissions offers made, Rice and Juilliard were tied at #1 for the highest enrollment percentage. So that combined with one of the highest student placement rates into professional orchestras would certainly indicate that “things are swinging in Rice’s favor” at present.</p>

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<p>bassbarimom- no, I was most certainly not referring to Rice! And I was adding on to the idea of not ranking schools to show that for instance, a school might have a great horn department while their piano department could benefit from a total overhaul. Or a voice department could have a favored teacher whose studio is so overcrowded that lessons get shorted while the other faculty in that area are in upheaval. It’s all a series of variables.
Feel free to PM me if you’d care to.</p>

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<p>On the voice department, since that is your sons instrument, Rice’s voice and opera faculty is nearly unmatched by any other program in the world. The training your son would receive there would be world-class.</p>

<p>However, even though a faculty is a huge part of choosing the school for you, there are lots of other factors, which is beginning to sound cliche at this point with all the other posts on this thread haha. I would definitely recommend applying; but whether or not it is a fit is entirely up to your son (and his parents) ;)</p>

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<p>Thank you all so much for your thorough responses! Rice sounds like a great place and it certainly seems like it will be on our list of schools to apply to when the time arrives.</p>

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<p>When my daughter went to Rice we were hesitant, not about Shepherd, which had the best bassoon teacher in the country (so she thought and still thinks), but Houston. Just to put it in our perspective, we live near NYC, all my kids attended Juilliard precollege and/or studied in the city with outstanding professionals. We were also concerned that in Houston the music would not equal NYC, and we agree with the idea that to be a great musician, you must hear great music live…and often! On the other hand, we were happy that she could take other coursework in addition to music. At the time, she could have cared less about other courses. Now that she has graduated and works within the music community in Houston, I have a better perspective.</p>

<p>Here’s my thoughts about Rice that have not been mentioned yet.</p>

<p>My concern about the quality of the music was unwarranted. The Houston musical community is vast and talented, the school superior and enriched by the frequency of performers that pass through Shepherd and Houston.</p>

<p>One thing about Shepherd that is very different from most schools is that undergraduates and graduates play and sing side by side. Your child is not competing with just undergrads, but grad students as well for those spots. The wonderful flip side to that is that they are learning side-by-side with grad students - a steep, but exceptionally high learning curve. If your kid is a principal in a Rice concert, they have won that place over every qualified grad student. That takes hard work.</p>

<p>D decided to take business courses during her senior year at Rice. Her primary income now is from an emerging woodwind quintet that she started and runs. They play locally, are ensemble in residence in Houston and across the country, and tour for several months a year. She also started a musical non-profit that offers a fellowship providing professional development for up and coming chamber groups, works for Eastman assisting in their professional development, plays in opera/orchestras and teaches in the Houston schools. Yeah Business Classes! Didn’t teach her everything, but helped a lot in understanding how to run her businesses along with a few friends she made in the Houston Symphony Offfice.</p>

<p>Houston is quite an interesting place to be in classical music. The city is eager for it. Although I would love for her to move back to our area, Houston has supported her musical endeavors amazingly. Orchestras, operas, etc are filled with former Rice students (including D.) Fundraising for her non-profits is aided greatly by Houston Public Radio, which highlights them often. Young Artists of Houston has hired them for ~50 gigs over the past 2 years. The public schools are eager to have her teach and do master classes. Income is piecemeal, but adequate for a starting musician. As demand for her group grows, I expect her income to grow as well. And the city offers good support.</p>

<p>Again, it’s not the security of a job in the NY Phil or the Met, but she doesn’t want that. When she began college her dream was to work in a symphony, but she is really a chamber musician at heart and has found a way to make that work for her. I don’t believe she would have received as much support in the NY/NJ area as she has in Houston. When her wind band becomes more successful, they can live anywhere, but for now, I’m glad it’s Houston.</p>

<p>The only caveat I can add is that I was disappointed at how Shepherd has not continued to support them in their post-school endeavors. They could have continued to offer discounted rehearsal space, concert space, etc, but did not. Individual music teachers from Rice have continued their support, for which I am grateful, but the school has not. I wonder if that will change as WindSync’s popularity grows?</p>

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<p>team-mom: Thanks for that very informative and thoughtful piece. It is valuable for those considering Rice or Houston, but I think it is even more valuable for any prospective professional musician–it gives one an idea as to the variety of types of work and the variety of factors one must consider (geographical, financial, musical etc.). You make so many good points: among them, while symphony work is stable and financially predictable, many musicians find chamber music much more musically and personally rewarding.</p>

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<p>This is just to say that WindSync is fantastic!</p>