This discussion points out why some schools make first gen college student a hook. They have a harder time figuring out the process and getting support.
My kids go/went to a public high school in an affluent area. Nearly all of the graduates go on to college, the vast majority to 4 year colleges. The amount spent per student at this school is multiples of what some schools spend, and the guidance counselors are very well paid. In spite of that, I found college advising to be underwhelming. The school/APT does host some presentations on college and financial aid, and a guidance counselor meets with each student/family in the spring of junior year to discuss college. There is a clear expectation that students will be going to college. And yet the counselors still don’t have much time to spend with individual students (other than those who are very assertive or have assertive parents - and not surprisingly we have some of those), and I didn’t find their advice to be particularly good. The main thing the GC did with my oldest was tell her she had too many safeties and not enough reaches. What?? He also told her not to worry about costs. Anoher what?? Last time I checked, he had no knowledge of our financial situation and therefore couldn’t possibly know whether she should worry about costs. If this is what guidance is like in a rich school district, I cannot even imagine the disadvantage students in a school without these resources have. For many kids in our district, it doesn’t matter. Parents are well educated, have been to college themselves, and are more than capable of, and willing, to do research on their own and guide their students. That’s what I did with my daughter. Sadly, that backstop doesn’t exist for a lot of poor and first generation students. It IS a real problem.
I’ve never heard Questbridge mentioned at my daughter’s inner city Philadelphia school with 50% free/reduced lunch students. I’ve been to many college events never heard it mentioned - no posters around school and in the college counselors area. 500 kids with 1 college counselor and 1 other GC for everything else. The budget normally would only have 1 counselor but the Principal knows the importance and the job the college counselor does and has made sure they keep her.
The contrast between the poor school and an elite private is huge. Most kids are not at a HS with 1 GC for 20 students. The gulf is still very wide between a poor school where it is rare for a kid to go to a 4-year college and a suburban school where almost all do. Our very good HS has 1 GC for over 200 (in all grades). The other difference is that kids whose parents are also college educated have a big advantage in that the parents are knowledgeable and can do the research. Their social circles or even sidelines at kid’s games include talk about colleges. They may learn about schools they have never thought about. A poor kid from an inner city will not have parents who have heard of Babson. It is even more important for HSs in poor areas to have good Guidance Counselors, since the parents are not knowledgeable. I wonder what the ratio of GC to students is at a more middle class HS in the LA area.
The large public high school my kids attend/ed is definitely understaffed in guidance. GC’s were known to shortchange the kids they perceived as not needing their help in order to focus on the kids without educated parents. This is an understandable and practical strategy when their assessments are correct. So while I certainly didn’t mind that they didn’t meet with my kids, they seemed to assume that all the kids with good grades didn’t need their help and that was not always true. But considering that after 8 months of trying D was not able to get 4 transcript errors corrected–despite e-mails and calls and visits to the office and submitted documentation in various formats to 4 different staff members–until I freaked out TWICE on them, and considering that even after that we could still not get the guidance dept. to send a copy of the uncorrected transcript in time to a summer program D was applying to, I am not convinced affluent schools have much better guidance departments!
At our small affluent high school, the graduating class hovers around 60. There are two counselors and those two folks have to do it all for all grades.
But they have the whole process down pat. The college conversations begin in freshman year with the kids (and separately with the parents as a group). By end of their sophomore year, the kids know that at the start of junior year they will begin working on a binder that will help guide them through making their college lists and crafting essays. Most of our students have the essays in some sort of final-ish state by the end of junior year. The essays have been reviewed multiple times by teachers and counselors.
I just received an individual education plan (Google doc) the other day from one of the counselors for my junior. It spelled out his general class of target schools based on his existing test scores, discussed my son’s current intended majors, what his teachers report as his strengths, discussed his extracurriculars and noted his specific class scheduling needs for his senior year (he takes a college math class each term plus the counselor wants him to do an internship fall term, off campus.)
Our counselors also sit down individually with each teacher and ask about each student during junior year. From that (and discussions with the student), the counselors create a 3-5 page individual letter of recommendation for each kid early senior year.
The effort is huge. And it happens because we can raise enough money to fund these sorts of positions that state funding simply wouldn’t cover.
I’d love to see that level of effort reproduced in all schools.
At our huge local public school (in a relatively affluent area), each GC has 300 students. The school has gone back and forth between having one GC stay with the same kids through all 4 years, on the premise that they’ll know the kids better, and having them counsel the same grade each year so that the ones who advise juniors and seniors have expertise on college advising. As you can imagine, the problem with the first alternative is that each GC is “doing the college thing” only once each 4 years, and the landscape changes pretty quickly. While I can think of other ways to organize the guidance office (as if someone asked me!!), none of them addresses the issue that each GC has to have a “caseload” of 300 students.
Having opted for a private school that has a crackerjack staff that does nothing but college counseling (20-25 students each) and having experienced how valuable that was, I completely concur that this is one of the many things contributing to the inequality gap. Parents can do a lot for a student if a GC cannot (if that parent has the time and inclination – as most of the folks here on CC do), but even then, there’s no substitute for a CC who is in regular contact with admissions committees, other college counselors, and has the wealth of knowledge from placing (and following up with) students year in and year out.
When I talk to friends with kids in the LPS who are considering options other than the state schools for their kids, I strongly recommend using an independent CC, if not for all of the process, for at least part of it. But again, that costs money, which is not something someone in a poorer district would be likely to have.
My kid did not listen to her GC at all, we were coming to the meeting(s) because the GC had some kind of task in the application cycle, I do not remember what that was. Relying on GC who had lots of others on his plate (in D’s case it was only 32 others, but even 33 applicants is a lot for one person) is asking for trouble. Be self-reliant! GC was also pushing my kid to apply to Ivy’s while she had no interest applying there at all. GC criteria for compiling the college list for each individual applicant cannot be anywhere near each applicant own list. How GC knows what each kid is after? So, my D. just listened politely and ignored and I would advise everybody to do the same.
Missb2boys, that sounds terrific.
I don’t think GCs should be ignored, especially if they have Naviance and years of experience. They know their best students, those who are the Presidential Scholar or NMFs, or winners of state contests. They know a lot about regional colleges. They know which local schools offer merit or financial need. Without doubt, they are probably most familiar with kids who have been in trouble.
Son’s GC was the person who advised him to apply to college 2 days before winter vacation. He was a junior. Son found 2 teachers who agreed to write LORs overnight. The GC got his whole package ready that Friday. I’ll never know what colleges she would have suggested for my techie son, but I’ll always be grateful for what she did.
Son attends a private school with about 900 kids. There are 4 gc and 1.5 college counselors. So the full-time counselor and her assistant handle all the juniors and seniors just for college. They do a fairly good job, but one on one is only if the parent or student initiates the meeting.
GC at the local rural high school is a nightmare. There are 2.5 gc for 800 kids. We’ve watched for the last 10 years as friends and neighbors have gone through the process and it is a train wreck. Transcript errors, missed deadlines, bad or non existing advice. A friend has had 4 kids graduate and they managed to screw up for every single kid. Friend once handed the gc everything that need to be faxed for a scholarship three weeks before the deadline. GC never sent the information. Not that I’m an expert, but I’ve been helping the son a friend. I would love to volunteer there because I think the level of “counseling” is criminal.
This is horrible, but not surprising sadly. My gc in high school intimated I wasn’t smart enough to attend college. I was a TAG kid.
@“beth’s mom”
We’ve had these issues, too. At the first parent meeting we attended for our oldest, we were told this very thing, “Don’t worry about money.”
I liked the article because it highlighted two kids from similar backgrounds whose paths were drastically influenced by individual attention. It also showed the advantage that these private schools offer when it comes to acceptances and financial assistance:
Even the most attentive college-wise parent cannot provide that sort of influence on behalf of their child in the college admission process.
“They know their best students, those who are the Presidential Scholar or NMFs, or winners of state contests. They know a lot about regional colleges. They know which local schools offer merit or financial need. Without doubt, they are probably most familiar with kids who have been in trouble.” - Well, if this is good enough for you, go ahead. This was not what we were looking for.
GC own criteria for selecting schools for the specific applicant has nothing to do with this student own personal criteria. Our GC tried to stir D. in his own direction, pursuing his own agenda, which is to place the top kid into the most top UG, he did not hear out that D. was not interested in this approach. She wanted to attend the college that matched her personal criteria in the best possible way and she already had her own list that contained the programs that we could not even discuss with GC, he did not even know the names of this programs and I do not blame him for that at all. Why he would know about programs that have 5 to 15 spots for the incoming freshman? Of course, he would not.
“The main thing the GC did with my oldest was tell her she had too many safeties and not enough reaches. What?? He also told her not to worry about costs.” - Oh, yes, why GC would worry about YOUR money, of course, he would not! Safeties? Absolutely every college on D’s personal list was safety. We did not think about them this way at all. She was after getting into selective programs at these “safety” colleges and she also was after Merit awards. She did not apply to a single school that would not offer her a high Merit award and she did not care to apply outside of the 4 hrs driving distance from her hometown. There were no single Ivy within this circle. And one public, but Elite college which was only 1 hour away, did not have a program that D. was interested and would not offer her Merit award. We knew all of these thru 2 years research. GC does not have time to spend 2 years on each student! YOU should do YOUR OWN research, it was very entertaining to me, I did it just for fun, I did not mean for D. to use the list that I compiled. I guess, I knew my D. very well (probably a tiny bit better than GC), since she liked my list a lot, organized it in her preference sequence and ended up attending at her initial #2. The list based on the D’s preferences and not on GC preferences made the whole process very enjoyable and fun! I strongly believe in respecting every unimportant to you whim of your children when they try to select the best place for themselves for the next 4 years of their lives. How GC knew that my D. liked the campus to be pretty? It was important for her and we respected it.
That goes for privates too, even elite ones. They often do a fantastic job preparing students for the college application process (especially students like Lizbeth Ledesma in the LAT article), but they also can fall far short when an unhooked student requires significant merit money to attend any college aside from the local state directional. I couldn’t believe some of the schools my son’s counselor encouraged him to consider (even though he knew we were receiving signicant financial aid). Sure, they look great if you can afford $45,000 - $60,000 a year. In fairness, once I got more involved and started steering my son in another direction (guaranteed merit money), the counselor was wonderful. I think the best outcome is when the college process is approached as a team (student, parents, counselor). Otherwise, there’s great potential for a ball or two to be dropped. Or worse.
Unfortunately, it appears NONE of that is a guarantee of any college-related acumen whatsoever (at least where the financing part of the college education is concerned), if these two stories are any indication:
http://time.com/money/4315466/college-decision-day-son-accepted-afford/
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/
Apparently, when you live among the top 5% and attended pricey privates yourself, you are not able to do basic math when advising your children to look at affordable options. It’s elite or bust.
@Dolemite, I’m surprised to hear that about Questbridge. Could it be that Philadelphia Futures is meeting that need already? http://www.philadelphiafutures.org/
I wish more students and parents were aware of College Confidential. If they started reading in ninth grade, they’d be much better prepared by the time senior year rolled along.
I agree that parents need to be involved. I send along blog posts, articles, links to NPC and financial info to all of my friends with kids who are going through the process. Many of the parents just don’t know where to start and are overwhelmed. And some engage in magical thinking.
I want to clarify my post upthread about the guidance counselors at the local high school. I get that they are overwhelmed but they’re also not trained in college counseling, are rude to parents and students, concentrate on “favorite” students while ignoring the others. A new principal hired an experienced gc who introduced Naviance to the school. She lasted a year before the staff ran her out. 
As a contrast, my daughter attends a private boarding with a junior class of 16. (We are on FA) there is one CC, she spends an hour with each junior Per Week minimum. They have 100% matriculation and multiple acceptances per student, mostly private and some state. This obviously makes a huge difference in their students experience and opportunity. My daughter and I still research everything we can on our own as it’s our responsibility to her future. She is also a QB applicant, ABC scholar and NHRP kid.
I know there are hundreds of thousands of poor kids who will never know of any of the program’s my daughter has been Lucky enough to be exposed to. It’s not fair.
@HailuMu, how hard on you and your daughter was it to have her away at boarding school? I know it is more common in Europe, but still uncommon here- especially out west. Perhaps it depends on individual personalities. It seems if there is to be a revolution in education in this country the opportunity for boarding school would be a good place to start. So many of the interventions proposed (free community college Etc. ) are too late to make a significant difference in outcome.
It seems to me that any parent who can read English and has a few brain cells can learn enough on the internet and from books to make a creditable college advisor, particularly about the financial realities of the process. Both internet and basic guidebooks are available at most public libraries. Older versions of college guides cost less than $5 each. I understand that parents who haven’t been to college themselves may not know that they should or can do this, but there’s nothing stopping them if they want to. And yes, I did go to college, but it was a total screw-up: my parents knew nothing, I knew less, I saw my guidance counselor for 15 minutes, and it was almost 40 years ago. By golly, I need to do research. 
I also have boarding school kids. This is an example of the other end of the GC spectrum.
S1 went to a boarding school in the US where the kids had an academic adviser (i.e. a faculty member who serves as a guidance counselor, but with only a half doz kids to advise) and a separate college counsellor. The college counsellors deal ONLY with college admissions, not disciplinary issues, not any other stuff, period… Each college counselor had ~25 kids. The boarding school had an excellent college admissions record stretching back over a hundred years, yet some of his friends’ parents still hired their own pricey, private college counselor on top of all that.
It was incredibly hard as time has gone on. In the beginning it’s exciting so that carries you a bit. This year has been the hardest because the reality that I gave up four years with her is sinking in now that we are planning for the next four years.
That being said, my almost 12 year old wants to make the same choice and hopes to go to the same school. And, I will let him. The experiences she has had and the meaningful relationships she has made have really shaped her in a way I can’t imagine her huge public hs with a class of 900+ ever could. I’m forever grateful for stumbling onto ABC and everything that followed.
It’s hard for me to agree that anyone can do college planning for their kids. There are so many socioeconomic boundaries in many communities. You don’t know what you don’t know. Where I grew up, very similar to where my daughter grew up, most kids go to community college if they go anywhere at all. Some of the brightest kids in my high school including my ex husband started the local cc just to drop out when working and young social lives took over. It’s not in many communities culture to seek a 4 year university so there is no support for kids to know what they are capable of achieving. It seems out of reach to them and their parents. Thankfully we now have the internet so many bright kids are trying to figure it out on their own but I can’t fault busy, uniformed parents for not knowing what to look for. Many of them are seeking help but like many examples given, that information is useless at best and damaging at worst.
I don’t mean to discount the challenges parents face in various circumstances; my point is only that the information is out there and accessible in a way that it never was in the past.