http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-admissions-20160512-story.html
This is very true. My teenagers go to a private high school and the attentiveness (and ratio of student:college counselor) is very high. We have all learned so much about the college application process this year – especially how it pertains to my junior’s particular strengths and weaknesses. If their high school was larger and/or with less college counselors per kid, this probably wouldn’t be the case.
I don’t need to see a study-I see this play out with D’s low-income and minority friends who go to ginormous public schools. The kids are lucky to see a GC at all, unless there is a problem. College advising? Forget it. In fact, one friend who had no help at all, got completely shut out and has no idea what she will do next year. No one at her school helped her-not even a volunteer. I’m trying to help her sort things out. D’s own school is public, and has mostly low-income, minority and first gen kids, but has not only rocks star GC but several volunteers to help with the college process. It’s also small enough that they can devote lots of attention to each kid where they are and help them plan a path to post-HS life.
Another argument for school vouchers and competition among school districts.
^^ Yea. Because taking money away from public schools will be so good for public schools. (Eyeroll.)
I actually think the problem of guidance counselors affects middle/upper-middle class public school kids. There’s simply not enough of them.
At my kids’ school, and other public schools, guidance counselors are overwhelmed. Too many kids, too few hours in the day. 90% of their time is devoted to either problem kids… or kids who are either very assertive or have very assertive parents. If your kid doesn’t fall into either category, good luck to her/him.
Vouchers can be used for public schools and probably most are. If a public school is failing in its mission, why give it any money at all? The worst thing to do is give it more money although that is the usual reflex.
I’d be very curious as to what the GCs are like at our local public which is 89% non-white, low average SAT scores apx. 1300 for the three sections), and presumably a high percentage on reduced or free lunch. We homeschooled. My oldest considered attending to play baseball, but he didn’t want to compromise his academics.
The school almost was taken over by the govt it was failing so badly, but they broke it up into four schools with different emphases, and I understand it’s doing better. One of the schools within the school seems to have SAT scores that are higher on average than the other three. I don’t know if they receive better counseling or if the kids are just more academically inclined. The focus of the school overall is athletics.
One kid in our series of neighborhoods (the one that covered the rec baseball league that my son was in) went to UCLA, but he didn’t attend the local HS. Another two kids, brothers, attended UCB and Harvard; again, they choiced out to another HS. Can’t say I know anyone from the local HS in my son’s “generation” that did anything other than the local CC or just straight into work at restaurants and grocery stores. One boy got a 1/2 tuition soccer scholarship to UC Riverside, but couldn’t afford to attend. I think he ended up dropping out of the CC and just working.
The school D’s friend mentioned above is a GREAT school-if you’re one of the kids in the gifted program housed there. If you’re a neighborhood kid-not so much. Her sister went to a smaller public school with an IB program and did very well-accepted to one of the CC approved colleges with plenty of merit. She will be applying to graduate schools next year.
Vouchers are not needed. Private schools are not needed. Some districts, and some schools within other districts, led by the right people know EXACTLY what can help kids who are not from college-educated, middle to upper class white families need to succeed. I watch it happen year after year at D’s school. But adding GC and college readiness help would be a good move almost anywhere.
I see this in my area too. The HS D attended has 14 GCs for over 4000 students - @ 1 GC for every 300 kids. And that’s an improvement from 3 years ago when the ratio was close to 1/400. College counseling is virtually non-existent. The school offers a few college “workshops” during the year, but these are too generic to be of much help to a student without additional guidance.
I go to a large public school, and there are a 5 or so counselors, but 625-650 people in my graduating class. There just isn’t enough support. And while our admissions results look good overall (admission to the best two state schools is 40-50% at my school compared to 15-20% in general), a closer look reveals that the majority of students accepted to those two schools are in IB and are pretty well off. In my area, the schools with the best reputations for college admissions are in fact (cutthroat, selective) public schools where the top experience excellent admissions decisions and the rest don’t fare so well. As a result of the lack of support from counselors, such students turn to private college counselors. Expensive extracurriculars, tutoring, and SAT boot camp tip the scale in their favor as well.
I think I may know the large Seattle school @sseamom is talking about and it actually has some targeted resources for kids who are first gen and URM, but those resources are tight too and if a kid isn’t encouraged to pursue them, it is very easy for them to fall between the cracks. My D goes to a smaller public school (might be the other one sseamom references) and the counselors there have 400 students each. Parents and the UW Dream Project have been driving a pretty strong program that invites college reps and gives families the basic info they need, but there is no personal or focused college advising for any of the kids. We have a family friend who makes a living as a college counselor so we were lucky enough to get some of her time. She also does a certain amount of pro bono work, but so many kids need help and there is nothing in the district budget to do that. In Washington state, that is because there are enough people who think it isn’t worth taxing themselves to help other people’s children. Our legislature is in contempt with our Supreme Court over education financing.
Parents should not entrust their child’s future to a guidance counselor, even in a wealthy district. The counselor can be helpful, but parents need to be involved, understand the process, and help their student find the right school and major for them.
Have poor public schools essentially outsourced college counseling to Questbridge?
In California, that does not seem to be unusual among either high or low performing schools.
Perhaps the school has a rule that students have to do well enough in school to participate in sports. That can be an incentive for those who place a high priority on school sports to do well enough in school. Also, if they are looking to play college sports, they need to do well enough to get into colleges (even college flexibility with recruited athletes only goes so far).
It’s not just poor public schools. In the Seattle suburbs, middle/upper middle/lower upper by national standards (but not by Seattle cost of living standards lol) we have 4 GCs for our school, 300 kids each. I’m not taking about an affluent suburb but a solid nice one with highly rated schools.
The tools and resources are there, if you look, hunt and peck, explore or your own and ask questions. But personalized attention and guidance through the process? No. I think they’ve made the juniors look at Naviance once or twice, ever.
We have a good graduation rate and nice % going on to some type of school and a high % accepted to our flagship. Quite frankly that is due to generally strong students (good school and good curriculum) applying in state and parents that may be more involved. It certainly isn’t due to the GCs, lovely as they all are. Heck, the only think we are hoping S17’s really helps with is a PE waiver. 99% of what I know of the process is completely self taught. In our case I see a huge loss of opportunity. Kids aren’t applying beyond the in state options as they’ve no clue where to look, how to look and how to chase the money. That said I do think they do a better job watching out for the disadvantaged or struggling student than your average good student.
@Much2learn
You’re absolutely right. In my D’s HS, I find that the GC is is discouraging my D. Try to keep her not applying at certain schools. Or, make her feel limited.
When my sister was in HS, the GC told her she wasn’t college material and discouraged her from applying to the state flagship. My sis was admitted, and several degrees later, she’s now a college professor.
These incentives only work when they’re enforced in good faith, however. There have been reports about a number of schools where star athletes get a wink, a nod, and a C- buoyed by high participation marks. In one particularly egregious case, officials at the district level intervened, ruling that a player with a failing grade had in fact passed the class in question.
This isn’t representative of a majority of sports-oriented schools, or even a large minority, but any such rule needs to come with safeguards to make sure its bite matches its bark.
I can’t agree more with much2learn. If you have a computer and you have a car(sometimes a plane ticket), you have the capacity as a parent to be your child’s best source of guidance. I also found talking to other parents with older kids very helpful. So many parents are eager to share their wealth of knowledge.
I grew up in a poor rural district. School choice and vouchers wouldn’t make any sort of difference in a place where there are no other valid education option. Our guidance counselors never met with us about college planning. I’d be pretty surprised if it’s all that much different today there. And it’s a poor enough area that many don’t have reliable internet access (a bit of data on their phone, no home computer) and since many haven’t been to college themselves, parents and their friends are lost in helping their kids. I know the same often happens in inner cities, although they typically have more library options with computer access.