<p>This type of stuff just fuels the frenzy - but having already been to a presentation about college process given by DD club team - I do think there are messages exchanged between coaches, parents, and kids that stoke the fires of belief - and those messages of encouragement, while not acceptances - should not be commented on in a newspaper as a done deal but are a harbinger of good to come. Sure, are there kids rejected after that type of encouragement? Yes. But that’s not the rule. There is a push to move back the time frame that coaches at D1 schools can contact kids within and D3 schools are not bound by D1 rules anyway so all sorts of messages can get sent to the recruit in all sorts of ways.</p>
<p>Check this out:
Yale Roaster at Hockey News: [College</a> Hockey News: 2011-2012 Yale Roster](<a href=“http://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/roster.php?td=59]College”>http://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/roster.php?td=59)
Princeton: [College</a> Hockey News: 2011-2012 Princeton Roster](<a href=“http://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/roster.php?td=45]College”>http://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/roster.php?td=45)
Harvard: [College</a> Hockey News: 2011-2012 Harvard Roster](<a href=“http://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/roster.php?s=20112012&sort=last&td=22]College”>http://www.collegehockeynews.com/reports/roster.php?s=20112012&sort=last&td=22)</p>
<p>Clearly these early verbal commitments are very prevalent in hockey, even in the Ivy league. From my experience in my D’s sport, Ivies are absolutely making the same sort of verbal commitments as other D1 schools, and they are making them earlier each year. Again, none of these are any sort of guarantee of admission, not for Ivy or other. </p>
<p>So I guess the question becomes the issue of it being announced in such a public way. Because the players have to announce them (at least in our sport and I know in many others.) Anytime we play in a showcase tournament, the players info is submitted to a media guide for the attending college coaches, and verbal commitment status is absolutely one of the things that is published. Similarly, the players are supposed to update their profiles with the various recruiting sites they may be utilizing. So the information is already out their in a number of public areas. I guess it’s now a question of how far you can take the “announcement”…</p>
<p>agree with a lot of whats posted. hopefully this recruit takes advantage of the 3 full semesters, plus 2 summer sessions- remaining before his ED application- to maintain a high gpa and works hard on putting together a solid SAT/ACT score. if he’s diligent with the long runway hes been given- his “supported” application should sail right through.</p>
<p>I think what’s happening is that in club sports, hockey, lax, soccer, etc., Ivy coaches found that their recruits were getting cherry picked by D1 scholarship schools very early in the process. In order to compete for those kids, Ivy coaches needed to at least be able to give those some strong words of encouragement.</p>
<p>Then the club coach takes that tidbit, issues a press release to the papers about his player verballing to Yale or Cornell to boost the prestige of his club program. The newspaper doesn’t bother reporting all the caveats and qualifiers about actually being admitted to an Ivy school.</p>
<p>Then the layperson reader reads the article and is outraged that Yale has committed to some sophomore hockey player.</p>
<p>So you have self-promoting club coaches, Ivy coaches who have to give some sort of sign and bad local journalism.</p>
<p>A close friend told the story of how the head club coach–at a team/parent dinner-- told the attendees how they could get a full ride at ivies for their sport.
It took me several phone conversations with this parent to explain the whole process and what the ivies do and don’t do.</p>
<p>I have a hard time imagining any coach worth his salt making a verbal to a soph…and what do they REALLY say…</p>
<p>“Hey, we think you are doing great…and sure would like to see you play here…”</p>
<p>Truly what is that? Nothing more than an affirmation the kid has some potential and that a coach wants to see potentially great scholar-athletes play for them and not against them.</p>
<p>And a kid says–“wow, I like hyp etc …and really want to come here and to play for you…”
Kids like lots of schools and lots of teams–yet the question is is the student admissiable at hyp etc…</p>
<p>Our student verballed on the official visit and still it wasn’t until the phone call and the LL were in hand that we breathed a sigh of relief…
and even then we were much happier when Dec 15 the “welcome to the class of …” lit up at the login.</p>
<p>I don’t know why high school coaches, whether varsity or club do such a disservice to the kids. It leaves parents and students starry-eyed waaaay too early.
I recently had a mom of an 9th grader start pumping me about how much her student likes the sport etc…
and recruiting. I had to explain how much goes into getting there, casting a wdie net and how the academics and test scores must be there not just the sports stats if her student wants to go ivy.
And had to give her the news about the fin aid…and no athletic $ etc…</p>
<p>I am happy to be of help–as there are parents on this board who held my hand through the process when we were worried and trying to read the tea leaves. I just wish the coaches were more honest–I wonder if they do it to build teams up (size/funding)</p>
<p>I think that we can all agree on a couple of points. First, admission is never certain until the letter of admission is sent. Second, a reporter in Mineola, NY, was mistaken about the offer (if any) that was made to a sophomore hockey player. Having said that, let me note that many athletes do make verbal commitments during sophomore year. In a sport such as womens soccer, many top schools get commitments from sophomores. For instance, the reigning national champion, Stanford, got half a dozen sophomore commits last year. All were highly decorated players, many with U17 National Team or National Camp experience. If a player waits too long to commit, she runs the risk that there will be no spots left and/or no money left at her dream school. Even at school like Princeton, womens soccer ends its recruiting in the middle of junior year. (They will find a way to squeeze in the next Alex Morgan, but otherwise you are probably out of luck.)</p>
<p>Different sports have very different timelines. Even mens soccer has a very different timeline from womens. I think we all need to be a bit more humble and realize that mens hockey may have a very different timeline from our own kids sports. I do not know what conversations took place between the Yale coach and this player. But I do know that the coach will be seriously hurt if he gets a reputation for having recruits not make it through admissions. </p>
<p>There has been some discussion of how meaningful verbal commitments are. They are obviously not a legal contract or a guarantee. But as far as womens soccer is concerned, the leading site that tracks commitments is extremely accurate. We know dozens and dozens of players whose commitments have been listed, and only two players were not ultimately accepted at the school in question. (One player got out of shape and the school retracted the offer, while the other player realized that she would almost never play so she switched her commitment.) So, these particular commitments almost all came to fruition. It is fine to say that nothing is official until admissions has made its decision, but verbal commitments are hugely important. When a coach promises that the university will cover your tuition for all four years if you are admitted, that promise means a great deal. Yes, you have to be admitted, but he has every incentive to make sure that will come to pass. </p>
<p>A final point concerns the uncertainty that remains after a player commits. Grades can slip and admission may not be forthcoming, but uncertainty cuts both ways. Our D knows two players who tore ACLs a year and a half ago (alas, she actually knows several). One had already committed at the start of junior year so she was fine. She is now back playing and looking forward to playing at a top D1 program. The other had not committed yet when she tore her ACL. Since coaches could not see her play, any D1 interest evaporated.</p>
<p>Coase, that was a well-reasoned response. There is a distinction, however, between D1 scholarship schools and Ivy League schools. If a UVA or Duke accepts a verbal from a HS sophomore, the kid really just has to maintain his NCAA eligibility grade-wise - which is a pretty low bar.</p>
<p>In any Ivy. the kid has to pass muster with admissions, meeting certain criteria that are going to be far more stringent than the NCAA requires. Granted, admissions will certainly give the kid a quick once-over to see if it looks doable, but until SATs and Jr. year transcripts are in - it’s far from a done deal.</p>
<p>Another thing, when you say, “…when a coach promises that the university will cover your tuition for all four years if you are admitted, that promise means a great deal.” , Sports scholarships are one year, renewable deals.
And of course, no sports scholarships at all in the Ivy League</p>
<p>The earlier the verbal committment the more the student recruit has to lose at any school in any conference. The coach is in a no lose situation. If the recruit takes herself/himself out of the recruitment market he has little to no leverage with the offering school or other interested schools. I understand it is very tempting to commit early as recruits feel this peer pressure to commit. It takes a strong person to resist this and wait for the right school and right situation.</p>
<p>fogfog is completely right–the Ivies are D1 in name only. There is no “signing” yet in may sports such as LAX and volleyball the verbal commitments do occur very early in high school–contingent of course on continuation of BOTH excellent academics and athletics (that is the rub of being a recruited athlete–both factors must be good…). As I have written before in those sports where early commitments are the norm, any coach who plays fast and loose with these commitments verbal or not will so become PBG in at sport’s network. And like a diplomat, once PNG, his or her career is over.</p>
<p>just calm down, at the club level most every sport coach takes credits for any current/former athlete that might have learned the slightest anything from them. So it isn’t unusual for them to say I’ve got former players at (insert university name here)…</p>
<p>my daugther fences, and her former club still uses her face image, she’s starred in a movie etc…one fencer even thought she was still taking private lessons at the club and the instructor doesn’t say anything different…by the way she hasn’t been associated with that club for more than three years</p>
<p>Duke, UVA and Notre Dame are now getting verbals from lacrosse players as sophomores. How can they do this and still call themselves top academic schools? These kids only have freshman grades and no SAT or even PSAT scores. And it’s not even football or basketball, where we all know academics are secondary at best. Stanford women’s soccer commits are probably in the same boat. how are these “top” schools committing to kids with little academic record?</p>
<p>Well, I know athletes who received national letter of intents in the mail by top schools like UVA or Vanderbilt, ready to be signed by athlete and parent, without ever having sent in any application materials. However, I don’t know if it meant that they were guaranteed admission. There are cases where NLS recipients were later rejected by admission.</p>
<p>^^^Oh my, I don’t think Daniel Golden would know a football if it bounced off his head. The gist of his book is about the scandalous admission process at America’s top Universities - giving secret preferential treatment to the white, privileged class. If that were the case, I would think Golden would applaud the fact that a kid from a lower socio-economic class could leverage his athleticism into Ivy league admission since “if the coach wants a player…he gets a player…regardless of test scores.” Which is absolute BS, by the way. Been there, done that, first hand.</p>
<p>A verbal commitment is NOT a guarantee of admission - it’s saying we have a spot for you on our team IF you can get admitted at our school. If there’s a scholarship involved, it details the amount, if not it is a spot on the team IF you can meet admissions requirement. So there is no reason why a school can’t offer a verbal commitment just because they have higher academic standards. </p>
<p>And by sophomore year, many kids these days have already taken the PSAT twice. It doesn’t count for National Merit, but it can be a good indicator of future testing success. And kids in programs like Duke TIP have taken the SAT as early as 7th grade. So there are some indicators out there.</p>
<p>Verbal offers and commitments are coming earlier every year, but they are not (nor have they ever been) a guarantee of admission. Ivies etc are just following suit so they can stay competitive athletically.</p>
<p>A friend’s child had a verbal committment from an Ivy as a sophomore. This is more than just a “we’d love to see you apply”. It is a firm committment between the student-athlete and the school. As that Ivy coach said, “If I don’t honor my verbal committments, I might as well quit coaching because top players won’t want to play for someone who doesn’t honor their word.” </p>
<p>That being said, the coach told the sophomore what the minimum GPA and SAT/ACT scores were required as her part of the committment. (It did help that she had taken the ACT as a freshman and already was several points above the minimum.)</p>
<p>
No, it isn’t.</p>
<p>From the Ivy League itself: [The</a> Ivy League](<a href=“http://ivyleaguesports.com/information/psa/index]The”>http://ivyleaguesports.com/information/psa/index)
</p>
<p>^^^seconded. It is absolutely not a firm commitment. </p>
<p>“If I don’t honor my verbal committments, I might as well quit coaching because top players won’t want to play for someone who doesn’t honor their word.” </p>
<p>If the coach has led the athlete to believe that there is a firm commitment in place, he’s not being honest.</p>
<p>Well, I guess the coach may still honor his/her verbal commitment of asking for a LL, but it doesn’t mean that admission will play along.</p>
<p>I think a “commitment” from an ivy coach is a commitment to fully support a student athlete’s application and, perhaps, to seek a LL – in essence, saying that the student is one of the coach’s main recruits. Admission is in no way guaranteed, but the wise and sagacious coach knows who will fly and who won’t. And there is always the big caveat that there are a number of things the candidate can do between the time they commit and the time the adcoms make a decision that can torpedo the whole process. My kid was recruited with five others – one of them didn’t make it due to a bad interview (per report from the kid) but with the help of the coach is going to a top D3 school instead. Many people have different experiences, but ours seemed very honest and above board from all parties.</p>