<p>My son has verbally committed to an Ivy league school for football. Hes a very good player, has a fairly good transcript, and has good SAT scores. For the school he is applying he falls on the border of their 3rd and 4th bands. He was offered pretty early so I think he was one of their top recruits. My question is: How often does an Ivy League school want a football recruit but doesn't get them through admissions?</p>
<p>Is this an ivy where admissions has done a pre-read on your son, or is this an ivy where the coaches assess the transcript and recruit’s strengths before the material is sent to the admissions office, where they will then request a Likely Letter from admissions? I believe that really depends upon which school your son has committed to - the ivies are not all the same with this. In the sport that I have knowledge of, there are two ivies that don’t do admissions pre-reads. The others we have experienced with recruitment all do.
That being said, there is a lot of trust involved. I would have to have faith and trust in the coach. It would reflect so poorly on them and their program if they were accepting the verbal commitment of a recruit, and were then unable to follow through on their side of that agreement. These coaches have done this process countless times - I do believe they know what they can and can’t support through admissions. So, I am going to say that it is probably very unusual for the coach to not get their recruit through admissions.</p>
<p>Has the coach committed to seeking a Likely Letter for your son? The odds of not making it through admissions are much higher for those althletes that do not get a likely Letter</p>
<p>I would ask for a likely.If he won’t do that, I don’t think I would trust the coach. Better recruits do come along at times.</p>
<p>I wrote these 2 posts a long time ago – sorry if they seem to be somewhat redundant.</p>
<p>While a verbal commitment has virtually no worth in a program where admissions rules the roost (e.g., IVY league), your player has decided to embark down that path. The reason it has no worth is that it is a one way street running from the player to the school; the school has made no commitment to the player (the coach may have made a good faith commitment, but admissions are the gatekeepers in the Ivies). So, while the player has effectively taken himself off the market the school has not reciprocated. A verbal commitment is worth the morals of the player who has given it – some players make multiple verbal commitments during their recruiting years – whoever whispers sweet things in their ear last wins! Most other players adhere to their word.</p>
<p>The overwhelming majority of verbal’s do indeed get admitted; however there are those who do not. </p>
<p>To minimize your risks, this is what you need to get done ASAP: get the coaches commitment to seek a likely letter for your player. If you get that, BEGIN WORKING ON THE APPLICATION PROCESS NOW! A school will not issue a likely letter unless it has a totally completed application (note that schools will give you a “pre-read” which will tell you unofficially if you are likely to be admitted. The pre-read is more of a guide post and does not mean anything to admissions.) </p>
<p>Upon receiving the coach’s commitment to seek a LL get MOVING. The application for the LL is sent through an admissions process set up specifically for athletes – meaning it is done calendar wise before ED and before RD apps are being considered. Every facet of the app both your part and your hs’s part needs to be completed BEFORE THE APP IS SENT THROUGH THE PROCESS. For the hs, that means getting the rec letters and transcripts in – and some hs’s move with glacial speed this early in the year (because they are geared up for regular and ED deadlines). For your player it means writing good essays (not great, but good). [While this point has been debated here, IMHO, the essays should be considered really important and the final product should reflect that fact.] If your player is like mine, getting him to focus on the essay(s) in the middle of summer may require some cajoling.</p>
<p>You should aim to submit your completed application ON THE FIRST DAY the school accepts applications from athletes [ask the caoch when that occurs]. The LL process can take up to a month –so you can see that the earlier the better because if there is a glitch (like not getting a LL), you can reboot the recruiting process and still have a good chance of finding a perfect school.</p>
<p>Also, get you financial docs submitted – nothing worse than getting a LL only to find that the financial aid you believe is available to the middle class is not quite what you had imagined.</p>
<p>Now, if the coach will not support a LL, move on! There is no point in waiting until RD time to find out you are far down the primrose path with no backup plan. </p>
<p>For Ivy’s, the Likely Letter is the key. Without a LL, you have nothing which guarantees admission to the school.</p>
<p>A truism: a recruit has nothing until he has something. </p>
<p>From a scholarship school that something can be a verbal offer (most verbals are honored by a coach); from non-scholarship schools like the IVY’s, a verbal offer is worthless.
If I were a parent I would get involved once the offers are made – coaches are masters of the vague and ambiguous and athletes are seriously overmatched when trying to decipher “coach speak.” Even parents need to really understand precisely what the coach is offering – if you do not understand, keep asking again and again until you do understand. </p>
<p>For example, a conversation will go like this: “I really love your son as a player. He is possibly the best athlete I have ever seen. I can see him in our program.” A player will hear the songs of angels if a coach says this; a parent may be similarly moved. But what has the coach said? Nothing about getting into the school; nothing about what role he envisions your son to play; nothing about recruiting other players for the same position. The coach has offered nothing but platitudes! </p>
<p>If your son has made the decision that this is the school he wants, press the coach for a commitment to seek the LL. If the coach intends to use a slot for him, the coach will start guiding you through the process (and it’s better to start early on the process which will definitely include writing essays and getting recs [IVY prospective athletes need to submit the same apps as regular students only much much earlier]). If the coach says anything other than “yes” to the request for the LL, you have learned that you should continue your search (although the coach may ultimately offer a LL later in the process).</p>
<p>The coach is going to get a likely when the time comes and after the preread he said he heard “all positive things”.</p>
<p>Sounds good, but I wouldn’t close all my doors. Stemit says it all. And in D3 it’s even worse, no LL. My S was very nearly mislead into applying ED by a coach last fall on platitudes, and our naivite. Luckily CCers helped us insist on the "pre-read’ and at the LAST possible moment, the coach called to confess that he had no “slot” for our S, and a tip “wasn’t looking good”. This was a COMPLETE U-turn of the past 6 months where my S was told " I can pick my kids 100%, that his test score and grades were “real good”, and I had to FORCE him to visit other schools and talk to some other coaches.</p>
<p>I wish you the best, and it does sound good. But I would keep a few other options in my back pocket. If your S is good enough, there will be schools waiting for EA after ED is over.</p>
<p>^^^stemit: Excellent post! Great advice and very good for all of us with Ivy recruits to remember - thanks!</p>
<p>Stemit - great (re)post as always. I’ll call it the “reality post for Ivy recruiting newcomers” because every word is spot on. I hope your son is enjoying his first few weeks at college/baseball. My son is loving both, and working hard.</p>
<p>"The coach is going to get a likely when the time comes and after the preread he said he heard “all positive things”. </p>
<p>FootballParent1 - the time is now, Oct 1 is a couple weeks away for LL. Push, pull or do whatever your son needs to do to get that LL. I would keep communication open with other schools to protect myself just in case…until you determine next steps. If your son was in a higher AI band, I would still insist on a LL. Good luck and please let us know how things turn out.</p>
<p>There are a couple of the reasons why you need more then a promise from a coach.</p>
<h1>1</h1>
<p>Your recruiting is happening in an era when coaches show little loyalty to their schools and schools show the same … hirings/firings creates a domino effect as those jobs may be filled by coaches currently leading other schools. With coaches part of a migratory flock, a commitment may mean nothing to a new coach.</p>
<h1>2</h1>
<p>Recruiting coaches are in a dilemna because they have to win first the recuiting wars to get the athletes to keep winning to keep their jobs. </p>
<p>They know No school signs 100%. ( why walk ons make the team )
If a school has a limit of spots on the team, they will almost always have to offer more, knowing they will not be able to get all their offers. </p>
<p>Write good essays and Fill out the apps!</p>
<p>Kudos, stemit, for an excellent, informative and REALISTIC post. It tears at my heart when I read some of the posts here on this forum, because it is clear that many athletes and parents going through this process for the first (and maybe only) time willingly entrust their futures to coaches - expecting to be shepherded through the process, afraid to ask the tough questions, be skeptical or to appear too eager. We parents who have “passed through the fire” and are now on the other side know better.</p>
<p>It is so important as a parent to educate yourself and be involved in the process from the beginning. I could not imagine letting my child handle this process alone - our kids are still teenagers and are not equipped to handle what is essentially a contractual negotiation.</p>
<p>I have encouraged friends with HS SOPHOMORE athletes to start reading this site now. The wealth of knowledge and experience on this site is priceless, and should be required reading for any prospective athlete.</p>
<p>Agreed, I wish I had. The collective wisdom of the CCers is awesome!</p>
<p>^^ Agree with this. See my “Join Date?” Sept 2007. That was Sept of my D’s senior year. If I hadn’t bumbled across CC and run into some incredibly patient and helpful parents of athletes, we would have completely missed the window for recruiting. D is a junior, and a happy student-athlete at her first choice school, but it makes me cringe to think about how close we came to blowing this. Thanks again, you veterans.</p>
<p>I have recommended this site to countless parents, bright kids, and college athlete wannabees in my community-better than any guidance counselor!</p>
<p>as some of you know, we didn’t experience any distrust or game playing when my d was recruited last fall. so football, from my experience your son is in!</p>
<p>I can imagine if your athlete is not a top recruit than maybe the experience is more murky, but for my d what the coaches said was absolutely true, from ov offers, to ll’s (or similar) offers, to signing, to even press releases! everything came through as promised.</p>
<p>If the coach said he wants him and admissions says it looks good, I’d say it’s a done deal!</p>
<p>after a visit with a coach how long does it usually take for a coach to call back and ask if you are ready to give a verball commitment</p>
<p>Pretty much right away shows that you are a high priority recruit.</p>
<p>That said, even if need to wait in line (it may be that some coaches want to wait for more OV weekends), you can get a call later. But, if you did not get the call right away, you should continue with YOUR recruiting efforts at alternative schools.</p>
<p>^^^Totally agree with stemit - always gives a good perspective and great advice :)</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I know of a few cases where coaches basically ‘guaranteed’ admission only to later admit that they were wrong (“never happened before,” etc.).</p>
<p>unfortunately, what Stemit and beenthere2 have to say is often very true… Until you have something you have nothing. Until it is a done deal, dont stop with other options. all too often things happen, either admissions balk or the coach is stringing the kid along and kids are heartbroken. I always go on the premise, prepare for the worse and hope for the best… it is good to be overprepared than to scramble at the last minute.</p>