Right, So... This is Really Difficult for Me to Say...

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>I have to be honest with myself.</p>

<p>I want to go to med school.</p>

<p>I want to be a psychiatrist.</p>

<p>I have never openly admitted this, only because I don't believe that I CAN do it.</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong, I'm intelligent enough, but I'm definitely more right-brained than left; I've always enjoyed English and the arts more than math and science. </p>

<p>I am currently enrolled in a BA program for psychology (just finished my first year), and while I would be happy as a psychologist, I want to be a psychiatrist. I am sure of it. I am 100% sure. I've tried to convince myself otherwise, but it is what it is. </p>

<p>That being said, I am at a loss as to how to pursue this. I am so afraid of failure, and I don't want to completely mess something up and be stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans when I didn't even complete the program. I'll be left with no degree, no career, and in a huge amount of debt. </p>

<p>My school does offer a pre-med program, but I am honestly skeptical as to whether or not it is something that I can actually succeed at. Like I said, I'm not unintelligent, but I attended high school abroad and did not take any science in HS whatsoever. College-level science is therefore VERY hard for me. I do have to take a minimum amount of biology for psychology, and that's fine, but I'm doubtful about delving into it at a more intense level.</p>

<p>I have always been a true believer in the saying that if you believe it, you can achieve it. This is the first time in my life that I've doubted my ability to actually achieve my goal. I am willing to work VERY hard, and I am extremely determined, but I am at a loss. I am enrolled in a state school that is 100% average on every spectrum, and cannot transfer anywhere else without a very hefty scholarship (which my chances of receiving are slim to none). Our advising program is horrible, so there's really no one I can turn to at college to help me out here. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to have to figure it out for myself.</p>

<p>I need advice, please. I don't want to fail and end up with a ruined life, but I don't want to look back 30 years from now and wish I had pursued my dream...</p>

2

<p>Update: I just did some research and discovered that my school actually offers a pre-med MINOR. Would I actually be able to get into med school with a BA in psychology (concentration in abnormal psychology) and a minor in pre-medical studies? It would be hard, but I think I would be able to do it.</p>

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<p>You can get into med school as an English major, whatever, as long as you take (and do well in) the required courses for med school admissions, get the right background experiences and do well on the MCAT. And, in other ways, show them you are worthy of a seat in their program. Many colleges do not have a major or minor called premed, they simply have the courses. Sounds like you need to talk with a faculty advisor. Also can ask yourself why you “want” to go to med school What do you specifically envision about psychiatry that you feel needs the MD degree- as opposed to counseling as a licensed psychoilogist? Do you understand the rigors of med school, what those classes actually entail?</p>

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<p>Keren–</p>

<p>1) are you a US citizen or permanent resident?</p>

<p>I ask because if you’re not your chances of getting accepted into a US medical school are quite poor. Most US med schools do not accept international students and, of those that do, only a handful offer financial aid to help them finance their medical education. Most require you to prove you can finance your medical education on your own.</p>

<p>2) a medical school will not admit you if the admissions committee does not think you will be able to handle the intense science of med school. So you really don’t need to worry about “flunking out” of med school. Med schools do their “flunking out” during the application process.</p>

<p>3) have you thoroughly explore the differences in clinical practices between a psychiatrist and a clinical psychologist? </p>

<p>The role of each profession has changed dramatically over the past decade or two. In general, psychiatry is more about the medical management of patients thru drugs; clinical psychology is more about behavioral and talk therapies (although in some states, a clinical psychologist can prescribe psychoactive medications). People with mental or emotional ills will often have both a psychiatrist who prescribes medications and a psychologist who does the day-to-day management. </p>

<p>I strongly suggest that you try to shadow both professions and see which appeals more to you.</p>

<p>4) although you attend an “average” state U, I still strongly suggest you get yourself over to the health professions advising office and talk with them. There is a whole lot more to med school admissions than merely having the right science classes. There is a whole set of expected activities (bench or clinical research, medical volunteering, physician shadowing, community service and more) of med school applicants. The advisor(s) can help you understand the unwritten and often complicated expectations that will be placed upon you if you choose to pursue med school.</p>

5

<p>Thanks to both of you for replying.</p>

<p>I have done an extensive amount of research regarding the differences between psychiatry and psychology, and am absolutely convinced that psychiatry is what I want to go into (I won’t go in depth into the reasons here, but trust me, I’ve done my research).</p>

<p>I am a US citizen, so no worries there. :slight_smile: I will certainly meet with the advising office as soon as I get back on campus (I’m away for the summer semester). I in no way tend to ignore them; I will by all means take advantage of the services that they have to offer. I was merely trying to say that the school’s advisers aren’t exactly top-notch and are known to be far less than helpful – so there’s a high chance that for the most part, I’ll be mainly on my own.</p>

<p>What I’m leaning towards right now is majoring in psychology and doing a pre-med minor. This covers all of the required courses for med school, and I have a psych career to fall back on if I don’t get into med school (although I really hope that that won’t be the case).</p>

<p>I was hoping that someone could tell me the statistics for getting into med school really are. I read somewhere that about 48% of applications are admitted, but there was no quoted source or anything…</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

6

<p>

Here you go.</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html[/url]”>https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

7

<p>Stats for med. school is too early to consider. Do you realize that Med. School is ALL science at much more intense level than any college, huge amount of material that is very hard to absorb in short period of time, very very hard for those who always felt comfy in all science classes at HS and college where they had very top grades. Ask yourself if you can deal with that much very intense science for few years. I would also take much more than minimum Bio in UG. The required Bio is not even on MCAT. To do well, you would need to take cell, physiology, genetics. They might be requirment for you intended major anyway.
If you could sustain lots of UG science classes and do well in them, then figure out if you have stats to apply to Med. School.</p>

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<p>Hi, </p>

<p>What were your SAT scores?</p>

9

<p>Maybe it was because I received my undergraduate degree in Astrophysics from one of the highest ranked programs in the country before getting my MD at a U.S. allopathic medical school and was used to taking hard science courses that my impression was that the level of science knowledge required to get through medical school was not very high. If you can do high school Algebra you already know all the Math that you will encounter in medical school and only the most superficial knowledge of Physics would ever be used. Some knowledge of Biochemistry is needed but I got through it and I have been a dreadfull Chemistry student since high school.</p>

<p>Medical school is an incredibly tough and gruelling undertaking and there will be times when you are so stressed and tired that you just do not think you can take another day of it, but these hardships will not be due to the level of proficiency in science that you have to reach, that is the easy part of medical school.</p>

10

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</p>

<p>Then you need an MD/DO.</p>

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<p>You are correct to be skeptical. Do NOT major/minor in “premed”. Any traditional liberal arts major – including a BA in Psych – is fine.</p>

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<p>Then you are a HUGE disadvantage to your competition for A’s, many of whom already aced AP/IB STEM courses.</p>

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<p>Actually, this can be a good thing. Unlike top Unis, who expect everyone to have had 3+ years of sciences, and thus do not offer ‘remedial’ coursework, average state colleges do offer intro courses for students who, for whatever reason, did not “get it” in HS.</p>

<p>Thus, before you enroll in Gen Chem (with all of the Frosh premeds), take ‘Intro to Chem’ instead. (At our local Uni, Intro to Chem is taught on a level equivalent to a public HS honors course, but lower than AP.) Prior to taking Calc 1, take precalc/trig to brush up your math skills. </p>

<p>What this will mean is that you will not be able to apply to med school until after you graduate, but since the average med matriculant is 24, you will be doing what many others do.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Huh? I’ve never known a BA in Psych to require that much science (outside of say MIT)…which leads me to Plan B.</p>

<p>Earn you BA by taking only the minimum science courses required for graduation (Physics for Poets, Rocks for Jocks), if any, and then enroll in a Post-Bac. Quite frankly, for someone with no HS science background, that just might be the safest route.</p>

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<p>But that naturally raises the question of whether you actually need to do well whilst already in med-school? Sure, the science content of med-school coursework is more intensive than that of college science coursework. On the other, you’re not going to flunk out, as practically nobody actually flunks out of med-school. You might not do well, and consequently, you might not garner an elite medical residency. But you’re still going to graduate; you’re still going to obtain some sort of residency somewhere; you’re still going to become a doctor. </p>

<p>The most difficult step of the medical school process is simply getting in. As discussed on another thread, plenty of premeds with top qualifications are nevertheless rejected from every med-school to which they applied. But once you’re in, you have a straight (albeit long and arduous) shot to a medical career.</p>

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<p>I hate to be a snob but the “science” of med school is actually less advanced than a lot of undergrad classes. The volume is much much more and thus very difficult but med school courses are about memorization and association and I was far more challenged conceptually in undergrad.</p>

<p>I am actually interested in hearing why psychiatry vs psychology. You will be asked a lot about it on the interview trail and since you fear science, I wonder why you would prefer the much more pharmacology, neuroscience, and side effect driven field when a similar much more abstract, similar, and less competitive (especially if you are male) field exists.</p>

<p>For psychiatry, it is definitely the case that the biggest hurdle is getting into school since psych is the least competitive field. For plastic surgery, I imagine many of them found getting into med school to be far easier than getting into residency.</p>

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<p>I agree about the science. If you can do well in the pre-med science courses, then you have enough of a foundation for medical school. In medical school, you’re not getting into any science that’s more complex than what you learned in undergrad (I’m having horrible flashbacks to my calculus-based electricity and magnetism physics course); you’re just learning more of it. The concepts are usually pretty straightforward. It’s the volume and degree to which you’re expected to understand and remember the information that’s difficult.</p>

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<p>"In medical school, you’re not getting into any science that’s more complex than what you learned in undergrad "
-My D. would not support this statement at all. It is much much harder in Med. School. According to her, there is no comparison, period. She had plenty of science in UG and was actually tutoring Gen. Chem. (paid SI position) for all years in UG, she had lots of upper Bio also.</p>

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<p>Maybe it’s because the science in medical school is my kind of science, I don’t know. But what I found difficult about medical school (among other things of course, but what I found difficult about the coursework) was how much we were supposed to know and how quickly we were supposed to know it. In some of my college courses, I had a lot of difficulty understanding the ideas. There were definitely courses in undergrad where I thought “I don’t have enough background to be able to understand this concept ever.” In medical school my thoughts were “I don’t have enough time to learn this as well as I should.” To me, those are different types of worries. No doubt medical school is harder, but I felt it was harder in a different way.</p>

<p>I guess the exception is probably biochem. If I’d stopped taking science courses after I’d finished all the courses required for medical school, I wouldn’t have had any biochemistry. And I think that if I hadn’t had biochem, I probably would have found myself back to thinking that I didn’t have enough background knowledge to ever understand some of my medical school coursework.</p>

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<p>"“I don’t have enough time to learn this as well as I should.” - This is exactly how everybody feels and they have to learn to control their emotions about it on top of lack of time. Altogether it is very difficult, while in UG it is always under control as you have time to seek help if you feel that you need it. Even if you understand everything perfectly, but would like to confirm your understanding, you can see prof at office hours. There is no time to get any help at Med. School. If it is not understanding, it is the desire to know which way is the fastest way to go thru material and absorb it, but there is no time to ask anybody, no time at all.</p>

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<p>You will not end up with ruined life. If you are just going in to sophmore year, start by meeting with someone who can advise you on pre-med and start chipping away at science. Start slow on science classes and get a feel. Frankly, most psych majors I know do have some pretty serious science classes attached for research purposes. I would not minor in pre-med…all med schools want to see is specific classes. One of my D friends is pre-med and is religion major. BUT med schools have high and sometimes specific expectations for volunteer/clinical/lab work prior to applying and that’s why you need some pre-med advisement. </p>

<p>If you really want it you can do it. Neighbor graduated in liberal arts area. Worked after college in hospital and decided to go to med school. Took needed science while working and is now at Harvard Medical so don’t get hung up on what you can do in normal 4 years if it’s what you want.</p>