<p>ROFL. Case Western is not categorized as a LAC by anyone, except apparently Erin’s Dad. Its total graduate enrollment exceeds its undergraduate enrollment. A third of undergrads are in the engineering school. If Erin’s Dad wants to redefine LAC, he can, but I seriously doubt too many people are going to agree.</p>
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<p>True, but if you want schools most similar to Amherst, Swarthmore, and Haverford, a safe approach is to focus first on schools in the US News “national liberal arts colleges” list. Schools in the 25-75 range on that list all have pretty much the same academic programs as A/S/H. The biggest difference in many cases is that they are less selective. The ones in/near urban areas already have been mentioned: Macalester and Bryn Mawr, Colorado College, Richmond, Barnard, Trinity (Hartford), Rhodes, Reed, Agnes Scott. </p>
<p>Small-ish research universities (like Case Western) might work for you, but they’re different. So are Catholic “masters” universities. Loyola University Maryland, for example, is a Jesuit school in Baltimore. It’s only a bit larger than a LAC at ~3900 undergraduates. So it might work … but it’s not a LAC. For one thing, ~35% of undergraduates major in business/marketing (which true LACs, by definition, don’t even offer).</p>
<p>This is terrific, thank you. Update: We visited Mt. Holyoke yesterday and she adored it. It is now firmly on the list, which means she will consider Bryn Mawr as well. Sarah Lawrence isn’t as strong in the sciences (she’s a chem major as of now). Loyola and other Jesuit/Catholic schools don’t feel comfortable to her (we live in the same town as Seton Hall and she has taken classes at Fordham). </p>
<p>Current list includes:</p>
<p>NYU Gallatin (huge uni but the Gallatin School is a school within a school–she loved the vibe)
McGill (huge obviously but hey, Montreal)
Mt. Holyoke
Oberlin (haven’t visited yet)
Carleton (haven’t visited but alumni recruiters have been persuasive!)
Macalester (might be too big a reach)
Barnard (Ditto)</p>
<p>Need a couple more targets and a couple safeties as well…</p>
<p>If Macalester and Barnard are big reaches, then Oberlin and Carleton will be too.</p>
<p>Have a look at the following thread. The schools listed in posts 3 and 4 (especially the latter) should be in the right range. Notice how many of them are LACs (which might tell you something, since LACs are only about 150-200 out of 3000+ colleges and universities).</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html</a></p>
<p>If she is considering Oberlin, Carleton and Macalester, then she might want to consider Grinnell as well, especially as a potential science major. First, these schools have a great deal of overlap in the applicant pool because of a similar ‘feel’ culturally. Second, Grinnell’s sciences are extraordinary: For example, they offer the smallest intro science classes, of any LAC we visited - no intro science class larger than 24 students, for example. The science facilities are beautiful and the faculty are excellent. Third, Grinnell offers very generous merit and financial aid. Finally, Grinnell has a slightly higher acceptance rate - it’s rural location is definitely not for everyone.</p>
<p>Ignore the advice to look at rankings, especially USNWR rankings, which are based on mostly meaningless criteria given arbitrary weights. The only things they are good for is selling magazines - and not really very good for that, since the print magazine that touted them went belly-up.</p>
<p>Rankings are based on the assumption that one size fits all, and that is one reason (not the only one) they are total nonsense.</p>
<p>Figure out what’s important to you, and use those criteria for your own college search. Do you crave small class sizes? Look at LACs. Do you want a huge variety of classes? Look at big state Us. Do you want to be far away from home? Do you want a Greek life? Do you want a big sports scene? Do you want to study a particular less-common subject? What’s the budget, and what kind of FA do you need? Do you thirst after prestige? How important is the style of architecture on campus? What about the political environment? Study abroad opportunities or interesting internships? How important are your parents’ preferences? Do you want a school where you’re among the smartest or one where you’re surrounded by people who will inspire you with their intellects?</p>
<p>No school is strong in all these areas. The only person who can “rank” schools for you is you, based on your own criteria and diligent research.</p>
<p>It might help to do an overnight at one huge urban place like McGill and one smaller place and to visit some classes so she can further weigh the importance of small classes and a more intimate setting vs. the importance to her of a city. She might find that there are a lot of theater, music and other activities happening on a vibrant LAC campus (Oberlin, for example) and the city may begin to seem less important. I think Oberlin arranges overnights actually. It is worth thinking carefully because there are so few LACs in cities that you eliminate a ton of them with that criteria. (Grinnell is a good example of an excellent science place that could be a match/low reach and is eliminated by the urban criteria. Also Colby, Hamilton, Bates, Skidmore, Lafayette, Dickinson etc. etc.) Check which of her low reaches care about demonstrated interest and interviews (Oberlin might be one) and show the interest if those are places she really likes. (especially schools whose median SAT equals her math + verbal exactly.) Did anyone mention Trinity? Hartford may not be the sort of city she’s thinking of (!) but it’s a city.</p>
<p>This is all great advice, thanks. TK, to your point, I think it is a mistake to judge probability of admission by national averages for test scores, although this can be a good starting point. According to d’s school’s Naviance as well as information from the relevant admissions departments, for instance, d has a much greater probability of admission at Carleton, Oberlin and Mount Holyoke (for instance) because all are actively recruiting Hispanic women with an interest in the sciences, whereas Barnard (and NYU for that matter) have a surfeit of applicants in that category. So Naviance shows that the average GPA of girls from d’s school is 4.8 (weighted) for Barnard but only 4.2 for Mt. Holyoke, while the opposite may be true for a different type of applicant. Another key factor is whether or not the school considers ACT/SAT to be important; Smith, for instance, has announced that they no longer require or attach significant weight to standardized tests whereas Columbia weights them highly. </p>
<p>I definitely agree about the overnights; she has seen Skidmore and Lafayette and neither were for her, but she will visit Oberlin this spring and do overnights there and at Mt. Holyoke if they are still high on the list. Not sure if McGill offers this but she would do it as well. She knows a ton of people at NYU so it’s easy to get a deepr feel for it as well.</p>
<p>I have daughters at Davidson and Smith. Both love their choices and I would recommend them highly. Charlotte is 20 minutes from Davidson and convenient for air travel. Smith is a great community (even though I know your daughter didn’t love NoHo).</p>
<p>A safety might be Endicott College in Beverly. It’s close to Boston and the subway actually has a stop close to campus. Stonehill College is another one.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I will look these up, thank you!</p>
<p>Since she is considering all women schools, maybe she should look at Wellesley too. It’s slightly easier to get into than Amherst and it might help to be hispanic. You can apply to get an early indication letter in late February which is really helpful. (It’s a little hard to say without scores, though, because you say Amherst/Haverford type schools but not quite as selective but then there’s something about Macalaster being a reach too, so I’m a little confused if she’ a 1380 or more like a 1300. Unfortunately it makes a difference.)</p>
<p>She’s only a junior, Hitch, but PSATs were 1980.</p>
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<p>Well, sure. But which LACs? There are about 150-200 of them. Are you going to look seriously at them all? annasdad, I’d be interested to see your specific suggestions that are not on the USNWR list in the range I suggested (roughly #25-#75 ), yet meet the OP’s criteria.</p>
<p>Start here: [College</a> Search - College Confidential](<a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search/]College”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search/)</p>
<p>Brandeis and University of Rochester are fairly rigorous small universities in or near large cities. Rochester has engineering but seems to promote a liberal arts bent. Both are for A- students, I would think. HTH</p>
<p>CMC and Pomona were suggested, maybe look at Pitzer as more of a match? Part of the same consortium. Also, Scripps is the 5C’s all-female LAC.</p>
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<p>annasdad, I agree that the College Confidential College Search tool could be helpful to some people. I ran a test to compare it to my “LACs in the USNWR 25-75 range” suggestion. I input scores and grades typical for a successful applicant to LACs like Bryn Mawr (3.6, 2100), which may be slightly higher than the OP’s. I specified a Northeastern location as “kinda” important, History as a “must have” major; $50K as what we could afford to pay; traditional 4 year college; very small; private; selective - very selective; high graduation rate; no Greek life (very important); liberal atmosphere (very important). I have no idea if these are the OP’s preferences, but they would be for many students at the kind of schools the OP seems to prefer.</p>
<p>The results? 20 schools, 7 of them identical to schools in the USNWR 25-75 National LAC range (Bryn Mawr, Trinity, Skidmore, St. Olaf, Pitzer, Kalamazoo, Wheaton.) Six others are either slightly higher (Smith, Colgate, Oberlin), or somewhat lower (College of the Atlantic, Juniata, Grove City) on the same USNWR national LAC list. The remaining 7 (Gonzaga, Pepperdine, Chapman, BYU, Point Loma Nazarene, CMU, and Seaver College) all seem to be far wide of the target I was trying to hit. Some of these are religious schools in Western states; the student I had in mind would have no interest in attending them. The list of 20 also misses some good possibilities from the USNWR 25-75 LAC list (Macalester, Mt. Holyoke, and Agnes Scott for example).</p>
<p>198 PSAT is good! A 198 can easily turn into a 2100 SAT. Maybe even a little more. So definitely consider Wellesley. If she ends up over 2100 Wesleyan would also be interesting but not very urban, I realize. In looking back over the suggestions, you might also want to think whether more funky or more traditional is appropriate (Oberlin at the funky end and a place like Davidson more traditional—this can be a very important distinction for some students).</p>
<p>Might be bigger than you want but Brandeis and Tufts are essentially in Boston. Brown Univ in Providence?
How close to a city does she want to be? On a subway line/commuter rail [Haverford; Sarah Lawrence] or within driving distance? Colgate and Skidmore are far from NYC. Carleton and St Olaf are in a small city/large town but at least 30 minutes from Minneapolis/St. Paul.
Also, suggest you revise search to include schools with Greek life; you might be missing schools where Greeks exist but don’t dominate social life.
■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ is another search tool …</p>
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<p>Which proves?</p>
<p>Nothing.</p>
<p>Since the USNWR list is nothing more than a list of colleges ranked on mostly meaningless criteria arbitrarily weighted.</p>