<p>To all the parents out there: what would you do?
PAchild failed to get into his dream school but plans to reapply after a gap year. He called the admissions office to get advice on what would be the correct procedure to apply for next year considering that they have most of his documents already. He asked to speak with the counselor in charge of his district but was refused. The staff member then proceeded to say that besides reapplying he better get new recommendations since that what might let them reject him. (that advice was given without even asking for his name!) The person then made it clear that if he was rejected before, most likely he does not stand a chance second time around.
The mother bear in me wants to pick up the phone, call the admissions and straighten the matter out. On the other hand, I am thinking that it might have been a bad day for that particular staffer. We have decided to wait couple of day and call again (different time of the day this time :-). Are there any other avenues that we should explore?</p>
<p>FWIW, the staffer could have been a $10/hour receptionist for all he knows…</p>
<p>Others may disagree, but I would have him email his state’s rep and kindly request a phone or in-person meeting to discuss re-application…</p>
<p>Not knowing what school this was, I would venture to say that the person answering the phone may have been rude but that doesn’t indict the entire staff…</p>
<p>and unless the person answering the phone “knew” about your son’s app (which they obviously did not), not sure how the heck they “know” that he would “most likely not stand a chance the second time around”…that’s just pure nonsense</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about your child and if he is taking a gap year due to not getting into his dream school or if he didn’t get into any colleges at all. If he got into other colleges but not his dream school, I would have advised he go to one of these other colleges. However, if he is taking a gap year due to no acceptances, my advice is that in round two, he create a BRAND new college list and NOT focus on the dream school that rejected him. There is a very good chance (I am sorry to say this and the person on the phone was trying to as well), that he will not get in the second time around either unless he brings something new to the table that wasn’t there before. He’d have to do something in the gap year to make a difference. As well, this person was saying that he should get new recs and go about his application in a fresh way. This person was giving you valid advice. You mention that they have most of his documents already. His current documents did not do the trick. He needs to start over from scratch. Further, he needs a new college list and even if he reapplies to the dream school (which will be slim odds), he should have a very different approach to the new college list he builds, as well as how he goes about the application. Further, he should do things during his gap year that work in some fashion toward his goals and really have something to show for it. </p>
<p>I will tell you this…I have a nephew who went about the college process without my help. I won’t bore you as to all the things that were not done well. He was applying to competitive programs in a particular field. He did not get into any of his colleges. He took a gap year and that’s when I took over advising him. I advised him on his gap year activities and a big component was getting an internship in his field which he did secure. We went about his college process in an entirely new way for the same field of study. His college list was ENTIRELY NEW. His RECOMMENDATIONS were entirely new ones. His essays were ENTIRELY new. He had resumes and samples that he did not have before as part of his application package. Obviously his test scores and transcript were not new. This time around, he got into all his colleges except one (and these involved competitive programs in fact). He just finished his freshman year and won the award for most promising student in his program!</p>
<p>Bottom line…he did not apply to the same schools again and he did not use all the same documents he used before and went about both his college selection and application process in a BRAND NEW WAY. I think the person in the admissions office was advising your son in a very realistic fashion. I am sorry that this is likely not want you want to hear.</p>
<p>As far as dealing with the office…they may not have adcoms deal with calls that ask “why didn’t I get in and what would I have to do now to get in again?” What I suggest is trying an email to the adcom. But a better bet would be to have your son’s guidance counselor call the adcom and ask what kept your son out of the admit pile and what would he need to do to improve his chances the second time around (simply reapplying won’t do it).</p>
<p>Let me add one more thing, now that I have read the back posts. When the dream school is an Ivy that has very very low acceptance rates, your son could do everything right and not get in. Very qualified students are rejected (assuming your son was truly very qualified). Rather than focus on one singular school with extremely low acceptance rates, he should have a list of a myriad of schools he likes enough to attend and that you can afford, and a mix of “odds.” If he is truly a qualified candidate in the ballpark for an Ivy League or elite school, he will need a number of schools in that range to stand a chance of getting into one and some excellent match schools (all Ivies and schools that accept less than 20% are REACHES for anyone in terms of odds), and some very good safeties. </p>
<p>It seems your son did get into some other schools (I didn’t know that when I first posted) and in fact, got into his second choice school. Not sure why he was fixated on one single reach school. I can’t imagine not attending the second choice school when the reach school had slim odds and never could have been counted on. I also read that you don’t qualify for need based aid, but wrote something about not being able to afford the second choice school. So, what I am not understanding is that if your son had gotten into the Ivy that was the dream school, to where he wishes to reapply, how you would have afforded it any more than the second choice school because Ivies don’t have merit aid and you won’t get need based aid. </p>
<p>I think the approach in round two for next year needs to be a new approach. No matter what, I advise to not fixate on a dream school when the dream school has slim odds for ANY applicant (much better to really love several schools) and in this case, the odds are even slimmer to apply after being rejected the first time.</p>
<p>My comments are meant to be helpful but honest. Your son is likely a spectacular applicant and the approach to his admissions process needs to be a new one. You may wish to do a search and read about the case of a boy several years ago on CC (mom’s name was “andison”) and he was shut out of all his schools (which is not the case it seems with your son) and so in round two, he had a new college list. His dream school was still on the list (where he was rejected the first time…Swarthmore…rejected again), but in round two, he landed at MIT.</p>
<p>PAmom - You got a bad egg … no question about it. I’m sure that you’d get a somewhat different response if you called a second time, and probably an even different response with a third try. But rather than beating that very tired admissions crew over and over, I’d follow Rodney’s advice … email the state Rep and ask for a meeting to discuss reapplication. Good luck to you and your son.</p>
<p>I really like the advice of Soozievt. To expect a different result from the next application season, one must do things differently.</p>
<p>Also, I would say that it was fortunate that the person at the Admissions Office DIDN’T GET YOUR SON’S NAME, because admissions representatives will certainly remember the name of an applicant (notice I didn’t say ‘successful applicant’) whom they believe was “difficult” over the phone.</p>
<p>At this time of year admissions officers are being inundated by students who want to know why they didn’t get in. I can’t really blame them for getting short tempered at times though of course it’s not professional. While it’s possible that your son might get admitted with the same recommendation letters a second time around, I certainly wouldn’t count on it. And I certainly wouldn’t want an admissions committee to be reminded “hey didn’t we reject this kid last year?” There’s probably no specific reason why your child was rejected, but never the less his application didn’t sing. I’d just start with a clean slate in the fall. Anecdotal evidence on CC suggests that results don’t change the second time around - school that rejected you straight out of high school will probably reject you again after a gap year.</p>
<p>I strongly agree with soozievt. This was good advice, and you haven’t described any rudeness. (If there was a dismissive tone or something, CC readers don’t know about it.) I don’t need to know an applicant’s name to know that a second-chance application to an Ivy has very low odds, and that new recommendations, etc., will be necessary.</p>
<p>Well, just to clarify. He was not a “difficult” customer, but very polite and just inquired about the correct procedure. He is the oldest child and we are treading the unfamiliar territory. He did email the rep but never heard anything back (that was a big change from before May 1st when they bombarded him with emails). Tried to call her as well, no answer either. He is not fixated on that top school but it is his first choice and he would like to try again. He did get in into some very good schools but I can’t blame him for being persistent and try again.</p>
<p>I am aware that we would have to beef up his resume and probably submit new recommendations. He is taking his gap year because he wanted to do it anyway and grow and mature through his new experiences. </p>
<p>My concern is that, if I was in place of that admissions staffer, I would have been more understanding or, in the least, give strictly business advice, not comment on his chances second time around. My son is aware of the low acceptance rates and the odds. What he needs is procedural advice, not discouraging comments.</p>
<p>Could have been a student answering the phone as well. Its exam times. Stressful. No excuse for rudeness, but possibly an explanation for snipiness.</p>
<p>Look, the woman was a little abrupt with him. Big deal. It’s not like she gave him bad advice or insulted him.</p>
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<p>Hanna, agree…we don’t need his name here either to give the same advice the person on the phone gave. </p>
<p>I don’t think admissions offices will field all calls of why didn’t I get in and so on. A GC call would help in this case if the student hopes to reapply. OP, why don’t you have the GC call?</p>
<p>Little story…When D1 was a junior in HS, we went on college visits. I recall visiting one college where we were able to set up a tour in advance but NO information session. Normally they do offer information sessions. When we got there, I inquired out of curiosity why there was no information session and they said that the adcoms were inundated with calls from parents now that the admissions decisions had just gone out. I said, “really?” I couldn’t imagine calling as a parent, but apparently they get lots of calls from people asking why they didn’t get in! </p>
<p>My kids accepted rejections as part of the process and not as commentary on themselves. With reachy schools (due to low acceptance rates and not due to their own academic profile), they knew rejection was a distinct possibility and did not get torn up if it happened and never thought they were not good enough if they were rejected. But they also built balanced college lists and had a few favorites rather than one singular favorite. And they liked all the schools on their list enough to attend. It never would happen that if they did not get into a favorite that they would not then not attend their other options.</p>
<p>The counselors and staff are at the very end of a long admissions cycle. I would imagine that the staff has been given strict instructions on not putting calls through from rejected candidates, given that there are thousands of them.
Your son did receive some pertinent advice, and I suggest that the tone and content is about what he can expect in the future from this school.</p>
<p>If DS is taking a gap year, what will happen to his college acceptances? Has he declined all of them? Has he accepted one and requested a gap year?</p>
<p>I hope the latter. </p>
<p>In that event, I believe (soozievt: please correct me if I am wrong) that he is committed to go there in one year and should not apply elsewhere.</p>
<p>Be that as it may, I agree with the others. It would be most unwise imho to plan the next year around reapplying to an Ivy.</p>
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<p>A few years ago there was a poster who had her heart set on Princeton. She was not admitted there but was admitted to Dartmouth and other fine schools. She asked: should she decline Dartmouth etc., take a gap year, and reapply to Princeton?</p>
<p>Parents emphatically told her to go to Dartmouth (her second choice), which she eventually did. She later posted about how extremely happy she was to be at Dartmouth.</p>
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<p>What procedural advice does he need? He has to reapply from scratch. That’s the answer to that question. This person gave you further advice to get new recs. You can’t change the stats but can change everything else and should. They are basically giving you the stock answer for any applicant. That is not rude or dismissive.</p>
<p>As far as “discouraging comments”…I assume you mean her saying that that it is unlikely to be admitted on a second try…I’m sorry but it does a disservice to students and parents to mislead someone and not give honest and realistic answers. In my job as a college counselor, I don’t say, “sure, you could get in,” when I don’t think it is likely, but give honest realistic feedback. Then, the applicant is free to apply wherever he/she wants but at least is doing so with advice from an informed person who gave a realistic evaluation of the odds. I realize many people don’t want to hear that. I have run into parents of students, for example, who have very poor academic records (I know this is not the case of the OP’s child!) and say the kid wants to go to X selective college and I explain that nobody is accepted with that profile…that their odds are zero percent (not even slim odds) and they feel they are being discouraged and don’t like it and ignore that advice and apply and get rejected. In my view, the student and parents are better served to be given honest and realistic feedback rather than blind encouragement when it comes to admissions.</p>
<p>"What he needs is procedural advice, not discouraging comments. "</p>
<p>Isn’t that what he got? “Get new recommendations” and “be prepared for terrible odds, much worse than the ones you faced this year” are exactly what I would tell a paying client in your son’s situation. Applicants need to know the truth whether the truth is discouraging or not. Your son may have known the odds for second-round applicants, but in all likelihood, he really didn’t (I don’t know what they are at that Ivy, other than really low). Schools rightfully get a lot of grief on these boards when they blow too much sunshine at students to boost their application numbers. It might have been good PR for this staffer to wrap the ugly truth in some cotton candy, but in my experience, when you do that, a lot of students/parents miss the truth altogether.</p>
<p>I’m saying this as someone who was admitted to her dream Ivy on the third application. It’s very much worth it to keep trying, but only if he’s a brand new, stronger candidate.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I see that soozie and I are still thinking alike…I’ve been fired at the outset more than once for giving a family this kind of advice. They move on to someone else.</p>
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<p>I infer this is what happened in the case of the OP’s son’s phone call.</p>
<p>Again, if your son wishes to reapply, have his guidance counselor call to get a read on what kept him off the acceptance pile and what would need to happen to stand a chance in round two. Keep in mind that with Ivy admissions, he may have done nothing wrong and still been rejected.</p>
<p>Hanna…LOL…we posted at the exact same time and said the exact same thing! :)</p>
<p>(OP, Hanna and I are both college counselors and so I hope you understand we mean this kindly to HELP you and that we have some idea about these matters)</p>
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<p>This is really important–he’s got a chance to really focus on what he wants out of college and find schools that could fulfill his needs, and to do it without the hullabaloo of senior year getting in the way.</p>
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<p>I searched for the Parent thread having to do with Andison from a few years back–a kid who had a wonderful high school record and applied to high reach and super selective schools, only to get shut out of all of them. His mother recalled for us his gap year, what he did and how it changed the schools to which he applied (more balanced and more attuned to his interests) and his college applications. It would be a good template for anyone who is contemplating taking a gap year and making another run at college applications.</p>
<p>[BTW, he did reapply to 2 schools on his original list who had rejected him on the first go around. Got another set of rejections from them…]</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/192395-no-acceptances-one-kids-story-year-later.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/192395-no-acceptances-one-kids-story-year-later.html</a></p>
<p>I suspect that the person answering the phone in the Admissions office did not realize that your son’s question was entirely procedural. Sorry the message from admissions wasn’t delivered in a way to spare your son from feeling discouraged. I can only assume that the person on the other end of the line hadn’t ever been a parent. 
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<p>But don’t shoot the messenger. The advice was good–you know what DOESN’T work to get your son into college XYZ–re-examine everything that can be changed (can’t change GPA and test scores) if you are going to try again.</p>