<p>Many colleges offer better merit aid than the Ivy schools which offer none.</p>
<p>ugh…dream school…</p>
<p>OP here. First, thanks for the eye opening advice. As I mentioned earlier, we are treading unfamiliar waters and are bound to make mistakes along the way. That is why I appreciate CC community.
Regarding our ability to pay. Not that it has anything to do with the original question. The kid has a dream, and we would have tried our best to support this dream (reasonably, of couse). He believes that that school, Ivy or not, would fit him the best. Haven’t you ever had the feeling that you belong? As far as second and third choices, yes, he probably would have been happy either way but I can’t blame him for trying again. Soozie, the GC is a contractor not a staff member due to the size of the school, and that alone is problem. S tried to ask her to intervene but she has not replied.
I agree that now was not the best time, we would let the dust settle, and contact them again. As far as everybody else blaming me for being too strict on the admissions personel, we are all busy, have tremendous stress in our work, however, that is not an excuse to provide rude customer service. A simple answer asking him to call them back in a month would have been fine as well. However, the original title is “too stressed to be polite”, we are all human, so letting it go and looking forward is the best way.</p>
<p>It was a different school (all women’s college) were D1 and I encountered an admissions department secretary a few years ago who could only be described as abrupt and rude. We sat in admissions for a while waiting for our tour, and were appalled at her behavior toward visitors and on the phone. I think she is someone who had been there for a looonnnggg time… D1 and I both agreed it would benefit the college a lot to get rid of her.</p>
<p>So, rude people certainly do work in some admissions offices.</p>
<p>That said, I think the posters saying that (1) the person you talked to had been instructed not to let these types of calls through, and (2) saying that you son’s chances of admission on a second try are probably lower than his first attempt chances are right. Do you really want to let him spend a year off when he could be earning credits and moving forward with his life, just to very likely set him up for the same disappointment next year? Probably 90% of the kids on CC don’t get into their first choice/reach school. And for most of them, it is the school that they are SURE is the best place for them. Nearly all of them go on to success at a school that wasn’t the place they had envisioned. It just seems like you are encouraging your son to set himself up for failure if you encourage him to pin all his hopes on the same dream school again.</p>
<p>For me, it is a lot more important that my kids move forward with their career and academic interests than it is that they do it at that one special place that makes their heart flutter. It is as much a demonstration of perseverance and character to take an alternate path to the same end goal as it is to keep beating your ahead against a door that isn’t very likely to open. And a lot more practical.</p>
<p>The reason I brought up the other thread is to put the gap year into context. The decision to take a gap year is not just to pin the hopes on this dream school. Since the gap year has been decided on I think the OP’s son should include another shot at the dream school along with other applications.</p>
<p>“that is not an excuse to provide rude customer service.”</p>
<p>Serious question – what was the rudeness, specifically? Was it in her tone? Her eagerness to end the call too quickly?</p>
<p>PAMom, thanks for coming back to share further. Your son can certainly try for his dream school again. No harm in trying. I just am a strong opponent of the concept of a dream school and pinning hopes on one school, particularly when applying to highly selective schools where the odds even for the best students are very chancy. And honestly, as good of a match that this school may be, I think there truly are a number of schools where your son could be happy and thrive and be a good fit. If he likes this school this much, find ones that have a lot in common with it. I don’t know your son’s entire college list but read of three reachy schools on it and two safety type schools on it (one that gave a free ride and one that gave merit aid). I don’t know what his other two schools were but try to get some very selective match/ballpark schools on the next list. </p>
<p>I have had two children who went through highly competitive admissions processes and while it is natural to have favorites, it is important to like all the schools on your list enough to attend and not focus on one school. Really work hard to find lots of dreamy schools.</p>
<p>Thank you for explaining the discrepancy on the cost part too. I now understand you were willing to find a way to pay for the Ivy but perhaps not the other schools. I didn’t realize that at first. We didn’t approach it that way but felt any school on the list was worth finding a way to pay for it.</p>
<p>Let me be worse than the person on the phone since this is what I will tell my kid next year if the same question arises. I know my kid has an Ivy dream school too but I can see every possibility that it may not happen despite the best of credentials.</p>
<p>Ivys are a crapshoot. Not sure what help taking a gap year does for a reapplication unless we win the lotto and donate 10 million or win some major national/international award but can’t see that happening. Just go to the best school that admitted you and you can always plan on grad school in your favorite Ivy.</p>
<p>Keep in mind all the kids that say they have a dream “must have” school who don’t end up admitted and go to another school on their list and end up perfectly happy once they are there. Had this been my kid, he would have gone to another school he was admitted to as the assumption was that any school that made the college list was a school he was interested in and worth going to. </p>
<p>Now that you are gonna do it again, it should be with the assumption of “let’s create a new college list where you love many schools on it” and not “let’s do this again so you can get into that same dream school.” The latter is a set up for disappointment. Apply again if he wants. But go about the college list building and application process in a whole NEW way in order to yield some happy results. </p>
<p>Also, your thinking on the money issue affects how you build the list. It sounds like you are willing to find a way to fund the dreamy Ivy but not another school and he must get merit aid if he doesn’t go to the Ivy. So, he could be right in the same place he was this year where he got a full ride to one school (I read this in a back post) and merit aid at another safety school (based on a back post) and even if he applied to match school in between the extreme of the Ivy and the safeties, it won’t matter if he can’t get merit at those schools as you are not willing to find a way to pay for them (your prerogative of course). So, not sure what to advise. If it were me, I’d be willing to find a way to pay for a school in between like Tufts, Northwestern, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, or Emory which in my view are worth the same sacrifice as Penn or Columbia. I’m also worried about the message this gives to the kid that you are willing to pay for the dream school but not a school a tier down from that Ivy which is still considered to be highly selective and very well regarded.</p>
<p>If you are willing to answer, I am wondering why, given that he had a singular dream school, why he didn’t apply ED where his odds of getting in (or the acceptance rate anyway) at that particular Ivy were three times greater? My kid applied to that same Ivy and got in RD, but it was not her first choice. Actually, when deciding where to attend in the spring that year, she eliminated that Ivy and preferred Tufts and Smith over it. I understand your son loved that Ivy and everyone has a preference, but just saying that my kid was giving up that same Ivy and we’d have paid for Tufts or Smith instead if she preferred them, which she did, though she ultimately chose Brown. But it came down to Brown or Tufts. She did not apply ED to any school.</p>
<p>OP- we all want to help our kids achieve their dreams. But your posts scare me-enabling a kid to fixate on one option at the expense of other, fine, acceptable, perfectly good, “perhaps even better than the dream” option doesn’t do your kid any good in the long run.</p>
<p>Ever December heartbroken parents post here that their kid hates their college. Top ranked, big football, rah-rah, small LAC, “great weather and on the beach” or terrible weather and filled with CS nerds- for whatever reason, a not trivial number of kids get to college and hate it. Classes are hard. Studying seems to take up all the time they thought they’d be going to cool parties. The gorgeous lawns that were filled with kids throwing frisbees in May are now mud-soaked or up to the shins in snow. And they now realize that the reason the coffee bar is open until 2 am is because kids are STUDYING until 3 am!</p>
<p>I am reasonably sure that one of the reasons that so many kid decide they hate their college so early in the game is that all of us- parents, media, popular culture- have created this illusion that there is one perfect college out there and if you can only manage to get in, and afford it, and go-- your life will be perfect. Brass ring. This is your moment, seize it and grab it. And only losers settle for second best.</p>
<p>This is a very damaging message to an 18 year old, most of all because it’s not true, and also because it sets your kid up to maintain this illusion about all the other decisions that are down the road. A dream spouse. A dream house. One perfect career. The top grad program. Why buy a used Honda when for a little more a month you can lease a porsche?</p>
<p>Your kid will get a fine education at any one of a dozen colleges. You will help launch your kid very nicely into adulthood if you don’t play into the adolescent fantasy that there’s one school worth pining for, trying for, reaching for. For all you know- your kid will indeed get accepted there second time around, and be reaching for the transfer applications 6 months after unpacking.</p>
<p>Help your kid move on.</p>
<p>OP–Please listen to blossom’s post. </p>
<p>Stop enabling your son to remain fixated on this one school. This is not going to be the last time in his life that he will have to deal with rejection. Teach him to move on and take a different road.</p>
<p>I don’t know why I feel the need to defend myself but for some reason, I have to clear the air and leave it at that. I am not “enabling” him to do anything. It is his wish to reapply along with creating a new list of new colleges to look at. The list will be smaller but would be new nonetheless. I was perfectly content to let him go to the school that gave him a free ride or the one with the merit aid. Both of them are great schools and would be a good match. It is HIS decision to reapply to the Ivy, and his alone.
@Soozie, he did make a mistake of not applying ED, because he was not sure what he wants. After all the dust settled, I encouraged him only to think about where on the list of his final choices he sees himself. Now he understands the risk of not doing ED, and that is primarily the reason for his gap year: grow and mature.
BTW, I have to stress again that there should be no reason to be impolite: on the phone, in person, in the emails or in posts on CC. But that is just MHO.</p>
<p>PAMom…just an idea, and particularly since your son will no longer be in HS during his next admissions process…you may wish to consult with a college counselor who can review the previous college list and all his application materials and help with a new approach to the college list and how your son presented himself on his applications, as well as how to make the most of his gap year and what new he can bring to the table since his last try. Again, this is without the focus being on this same Ivy (no harm in putting in again, but that just cannot be the goal, sorry). Figure out what it is about this particular college that is so appealing and explore other options that have similar attributes in both the same range of selectivity but also one tier down in selectivity. In other words, I am also not into Ivy vs. safety school. There are great options in between. Not sure you are willing to pay for those (merit aid will be less likely). But someone with expertise who is also an objective third party, might be a good thing for you guys even if to just create the college list and to discuss the application package approach. It can make a world of difference. As I said, I went through this with my nephew (different sort of colleges than your son) and the second time around during the gap year was a very very different college list and very very different approach to the applications. You gotta do something different this time to yield good results. Just repeating the same thing again isn’t gonna do the trick. And it might help to have a third party get involved. I don’t know that this Ivy is gonna be the one to tell you what your son needs to do differently, but an outside advisor may help you to discover that. I’m not sure the real purpose in calling that Ivy up truthfully, though I suppose if you think they will tell you how to improve the application, it is worth a shot but many may not do that. I don’t know who served in the GC role…you said an independent contractor…was this at a public school? That person still should do their role of the follow up with the college on your behalf if you ask. That is how I’d approach that. But I don’t think this is the main focus. You can let your son reapply but he MUST know that the odds are very slim he will gain entry at that same school a second time unless he has done something that really ups his application/profile in some fashion. So, he needs encouragement to try again at other schools and put the energy into that. One more thing…you gotta talk to him about that he still might not get into his favorite colleges and so you can’t keep reapplying each year until you win that “prize,” but approach college admissions with a list of schools you are willing to attend and see what cards you are dealt and pick the best fit of those cards and go to one. In life, there will be many times when you don’t get into your first choice job, etc.</p>
<p>Sorry, one MORE thing. I just noticed that you said his college list will be smaller next year. I would NOT advise that. I think I read he had seven colleges on his list, which is about as small as he should go considering he had several Ivies on the list I believe, when you consider the odds (for anyone, even the bestest students). Your son may wish to apply to ten schools…four reaches, four matches, and two safeties. Add to that the fact that you are chasing Merit Aid and it means that 6 or fewer schools may not do the trick. One of the many mistakes my nephew made in his competitive admissions process was that in the first round, he had six schools. Got into none. Second try, I think he had 10 or 11 schools and got into all but one (this wasn’t the only change made in his admissions process but was one factor contributing to his success). He only reapplied to ONE school on his original list. BTW, that is the ONE school he did NOT get into on the second try!</p>
<p>Soozie - Are there are any success stories out there of people getting into an Ivy after taking a gap year?</p>
<p>texaspg: There’s someone who posts on the Brown board here on CC who applied last year, didn’t get in, took a gap year, and got into Brown in the fall after applying ED. I don’t remember her screenname. I know she wrote about what she did differently.</p>
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<p>Well, this is not the same question as the OP’s son’s situation. Many get admitted to Ivies after taking a gap year after high school. </p>
<p>The OP’s situation is about being rejected at a particular Ivy and reapplying to the same Ivy after a gap year. I don’t know of hardly anyone who even tried this and so can’t answer but for example, fireandrain just mentioned how a Brown applicant was successful in such a situation. I have known kids who were rejected at schools who reapplied the next year and were rejected again to the same schools but successful at OTHER very competitive schools (see andison’s story on CC for one example of applying to Swarthmore, rejected, reapplied and rejected again but got into MIT on second round). But as I wrote in one of my first posts on this thread, the odds are slim when reapplying to the same school but not impossible but what would be key is to do something different the second time around. The kid would have had to accomplish something new during the gap year, as well as approach the application in a new way and present everything differently. </p>
<p>So, I am not telling the OP to NOT have her son reapply to that dream Ivy, as he may as well try again, but rather to go about his college list very differently in the next round, as well as his entire application process, and also not to fixate on getting into that rejected Ivy and broaden the outlook from the get go because otherwise, they may be sitting here next year at this time with the same rejected Ivy and having some safety schools where he doesn’t want to attend.</p>
<p>PaMom, I’m sorry your son got someone rude on the phone. I don’t condone it as I’ve made clear. I hope he enjoys his year abroad, and has a smooth application process next year. He’s had a dry run on this, so he will find the ground familiar. </p>
<p>I truly don’t know what the odds of success are for someone who is not accepted to any given school, and tries again. I agree with Soozie that he should have a wide choice of schools. Hopefully he finds some other schools that he likes as much as his first choice. </p>
<p>I do know of kids who were turned down at schools who were able to transfer into them, some of them highly selective ones and one girl who was accepted to one of the most selective LACs on a rebound, so it can happen. But to hang ones hopes on any of these lottery ticket schools is really asking for disappointment, because the odds are just so small of anyone getting accepted without some outstanding reason a college would want student. Athletes, development, special talents would fall in that category and those kids with greater odds of acceptance drive the true chances for those not in such categories.</p>
<p>I also think a paid counselor familiar with the admissions to the top school, especially with experience dealing with your son’s choice would be a worth while investment, because there are so many specifics you don’t know. Should he apply ED this second time around, for example.</p>
<p>Great post, blossom. OP - you say you are not enabling, but personally I’d have a very hard time letting my kid turn down perfectly fine options to continue a chase after a dream school. I think there are multiple dream schools out there for any one kid and I encourage the “here are lots of great options” vs the “one school uber alles” thinking. I love Penn too, it’s one of my favorite schools, but it simply isn’t all that. No school is. None.</p>
<p>If it were my kid, I would have told her to go to one of the schools she got into, do really well, and then decided if she wants to transfer. By doing well in college would give adcom another (better) datat point.</p>
<p>At D1’s high school, few kids every year would go to a highly ranked boarding school for another year and to re-apply again.</p>
<p>I also second the suggestion of working with a private counselor to see how OP’s son could improve(change) his application, and what he could do during his gap year to make him a better applicant.</p>